Author Topic: Entitlement culture  (Read 398 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Entitlement culture
« on: September 11, 2017, 11:44:14 am »
So some Canadians are whining because the government won't send military planes down to the Caribbean to fetch them home. They went there for a holiday adn things aren't fun any more, damnit! MOMMMYYY!

What you didn't know a hurricane was coming? It's not like your life is in danger. You're not starving and nobody is torturing you. You're just uncomfortable, and will get out soon as the airports reopen.

People who were flooded in Ontario and Quebec are whining because the government hasn't given them enough money, or no money. Did the government tell you to build a nice home on the edge of a river? No, you did it because of the view. You didn't think maybe that would expose you to floods on occasion? Why is it the government's job to pay you off because you wanted a river view? Rebuild your own damn house.

There were hearings last week because Air Transit kept some people in its planes on the runway in Ottawa for hours and the way people who testified described it you'd think it was another Holocaust and they were lucky to survive it. There was no air conditioning! I was hungry! Hey, did you choose Air Transit because it had rock bottom prices or what?

All I hear is whining that the government isn't doing enough for people in their daily lives. Whatever the problem is it's like government is mommy, and people want them to take care of it. Nor does anyone show a lick of gratitude afterward.

Almost a third of Canadians who live in this beautiful country pay no taxes. They have full access to all its bounty, ride on its roads, go to school, have full health care and all other government services from police and fire to snow clearing. Government checks their food for safety and ensures the buildings they live in won't collapse. They pay nothing for this. Do you think any of them feels the slightest gratitude? Nope. They resent not being given more.

Even the ones on welfare whose every bite of food is paid for by others, who live in a house paid for by others, and wear clothes paid for by others (including natives on reserves) seem to have zero gratitude and just sulky complaints about not getting more.

Is the concept of taking personal responsibility for our own actions totally lost on people?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:46:11 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Offline MH

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 12:02:42 pm »
1. So some Canadians are whining because the government won't send military planes down to the Caribbean to fetch them home. They went there for a holiday adn things aren't fun any more, damnit! MOMMMYYY!
 
2. There were hearings last week because Air Transit kept some people in its planes on the runway in Ottawa for hours and the way people who testified described it you'd think it was another Holocaust and they were lucky to survive it. There was no air conditioning! I was hungry! Hey, did you choose Air Transit because it had rock bottom prices or what?

3.  Almost a third of Canadians who live in this beautiful country pay no taxes.

Some points:
1. You're *kind of* defending the Trudeau government here.  Since we're being all switchy, I'll attack them: they did a shit job of communicating with people, as has happened again and again with Foreign Affairs.
2. I kind of agree with you here. 
3. Yes, but what was the case before the race to the bottom ?  Are people who are at the bottom end paying no taxes now, or are they making less money ?

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 12:08:42 pm »
Almost a third of Canadians who live in this beautiful country pay no taxes.

I don't really have much to say about your opening post, but this little tidbit raised my eyebrow.  On the tax-loophole thread, you added a good 15-20% to your OVERALL tax rate by including consumption tax.

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here?

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 12:11:36 pm »
I don't really have much to say about your opening post, but this little tidbit raised my eyebrow.  On the tax-loophole thread, you added a good 15-20% to your OVERALL tax rate by including consumption tax.

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here?
Oh but they get a GST cheque.  ::)
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 08:16:57 pm »
I don't really have much to say about your opening post, but this little tidbit raised my eyebrow.  On the tax-loophole thread, you added a good 15-20% to your OVERALL tax rate by including consumption tax.

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here?

I consume more. :-p
I also don't get an HST refund cheque. I pay tax on my house and condo, gas taxes, and other taxes you probably don't if you're poor given many of life's requirements like basic groceries don't get taxed.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 08:31:24 pm »
Some points:
1. You're *kind of* defending the Trudeau government here.

So? I attacked Harper's government often enough.

Quote
3. Yes, but what was the case before the race to the bottom ?  Are people who are at the bottom end paying no taxes now, or are they making less money ?

Over the last 20 years, the percentage of the Canadian population living in poverty has declined. Specifically, the percentage living in households below the basic needs poverty line has fallen from 6.7 percent in 1996 to 4.8 percent in 2009 (latest year of available data). Meanwhile, the percentage living in households below Statistics Canada’s low income cut off (LICO) has also decreased from a height of 15.2 percent in 1996 to 9.7 percent in 2013 (the latest year of available data). The incidence of low income among specific vulnerable groups (children, seniors, and persons in lone-parent families) has also dropped over time. 

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/an-introduction-to-the-state-of-poverty-in-canada


What’s more, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer noted last year, the tax changes introduced under the Tories since 2006 “have been progressive overall. Low and middle income earners have benefited more, in relative terms, than higher income earners.” Their income-splitting policy slightly shifts benefits up the income ladder, but it still benefits the middle class most.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/judge-harpers-economic-record-by-the-hand-he-was-dealt/article25867267/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 09:28:53 pm »
Ok.  So above 'low income' the next 20% doesn't pay taxes ?

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 12:00:41 pm »
Ok.  So above 'low income' the next 20% doesn't pay taxes ?

My point is not to rehash previous discussions on who pays what in taxes but to point out the sense of entitlement and lack of gratitude in our society.

A hundred years ago the government took care of basic infrastructure and nothing else. You were on your own to lead your life as best you could and to succeed or fail depending on your abilities and luck. And no one expected anything different. Certainly no one was willing to pay the government to do more.

We have gone all the way over to the other side now, it seems, where government takes vast sums of our income and is expected to take care of all our problems, so when it does people aren't grateful. They just figure that's the way things are supposed to be. Whenever the government fails to fully live up to their sense of what should be done, people get angry. And this happens regardless of how much or how little tax dollars people contribute to the government's resources.  And it has been spread to private entities now too. People expect to get their way, and to be looked after in all things, and to have their issues redressed whenever they're unhappy with things. As if they're children stomping up and down and screaming angrily at their mommies.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 07:24:58 pm »
SirJohn I generally agree with your opening post. It's like a teenager or young adult that is given everything by their parents and comes to expect being given things and isn't appreciative, and as a result isn't able to function on their own with sucking on the teet.  The parents think they're just being good to their child but they're actually making them weaker and more less independent.  Next thing you know you have an otherwise healthy grown child in their 30's living in their parents basement, not well adjusted and unable to fend for themselves in the real world because they remain in the protective bubble of the parents.

I'm certainly not rich by any means, but last week I had 40% of my paycheque go to income taxes and deductions from the government.  That doesn't include the 13% i'll have to spend on GST on top of that and other taxes.  We need taxes to pay for vital services and to help the people who genuinely need help, like the disabled and the sick, but c'mon.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 07:42:25 pm »
I'm certainly not rich by any means, but last week I had 40% of my paycheque go to income taxes and deductions from the government.  That doesn't include the 13% i'll have to spend on GST on top of that and other taxes.  We need taxes to pay for vital services and to help the people who genuinely need help, like the disabled and the sick, but c'mon.

I know Ontario is taxed slightly higher than BC, but just for fun I ran the numbers on CRA website for what your income tax would be on $150,000.  Your total tax (federal and provincial) is $46,656 which is just over 31%.

If you paid more than that, you're not as 'not rich' as you say you are.  Or maybe it was a bonus which ends up being dispersed over your annual earnings and taxed slightly higher.

Either way, 40% doesn't sound right even for a nicely compensated position. 

And the 13% HST is not straight across everything you earn, I would hope.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 07:44:36 pm by BC_cheque »

Offline Goddess

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 09:55:41 am »
Quote
Either way, 40% doesn't sound right even for a nicely compensated position. 

It sounds about right to me.  Almost exactly 1/3 of my monthly paycheque goes directly to taxes and deductions.  Add in the taxes I pay on everything else during the month and I bet it would be about 40% of my income that goes to the government.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 10:25:15 am »
It sounds about right to me.  Almost exactly 1/3 of my monthly paycheque goes directly to taxes and deductions.  Add in the taxes I pay on everything else during the month and I bet it would be about 40% of my income that goes to the government.

You don't know?   If you care so much, why don't you buy a notepad and a calculator and figure it out?

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 10:35:09 am »
You don't know?   If you care so much, why don't you buy a notepad and a calculator and figure it out?
I have a very hard time believing the claim.

Consider this. We will use hypothetical numbers.

Someone makes a gross income on their paycheck: $2400.

Say 2/3 of that goes towards taxes, EI, CPP, etc. (EI and CPP aren't taxes, but we'll pretend that they are)

They're left with $1600 net income.

If they spend every last dime of that $1600 on taxable goods then roughly $200 of that will be taxed with consumption taxes (we'll even pretend that they have zero non-taxable spending despite the fact that groceries and rents aren't taxed).

That means another $200 on top of the $800 they spent on taxes is added to their tax burden. That's a total of $1000 out of $2400 or 42% taxes.

The problem is that this is a completely unreasonable scenario.

First of all, it presumes they spend every last penny of their income. People do not.
It presumes that EI and CPP are taxes. They are not.
It presumes that every last dollar of their spending is on taxable goods. It's not. Not even close.

So they're not paying anywhere even close to the theoretical maximum tax. They would literally have to spend every last penny of their income on taxable goods and services for that to be the case. That means they wouldn't have a roof over their head or food in their belly (unless they literally only ever ate at restaurants).

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Offline Goddess

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:47 am »
You don't know?   If you care so much, why don't you buy a notepad and a calculator and figure it out?

Yes, I do know.  I'm just not sharing my personal pay stub numbers on a public forum.  I hope you understand.  :)
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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 02:03:47 pm »
Yes, I do know.  I'm just not sharing my personal pay stub numbers on a public forum.  I hope you understand.  :)
  I believe he was suggesting you could use paper and pencil to figure out how much additional you pay in consumption taxes, since you were "guessing" that took you to 40%.
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