Author Topic: Economics Culture  (Read 3953 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #105 on: March 09, 2020, 01:21:18 pm »
I remember having a similar argument in the early eighties with some guys in a bar at the old YYZ Skyline hotel. They were going on about the benefits of more debt when PET was ramping up borrowing and I was against. Ten years later Chretien and Martin where having to slash and burn because the federal government was on the verge of being cut off by lenders. We were no longer seen as a secure place to invest in government debt. Some things don't change.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #106 on: March 09, 2020, 01:43:56 pm »
The target of slowly reducing the debt:GDP ratio is not a con, it is responsible fiscal policy. The con is selling off revenue producing assets at firesale prices to produce a fake surplus.

You mean like the Harper/Oliver approach to finally produce one "surplus" amid 9 deficits?

Offline waldo

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #107 on: March 09, 2020, 01:46:56 pm »
to feed your debtHawkishness, what hypotheticals are you presuming upon? Or do you just have a... feeling?  ;D

Q/A with that Nobel guy:

He used the words "hypothetical economy" numb nuts. Don't you read what you post?

is it representative of today, or not? Asking you about your "feeling" was intended to solicit what frames your perpetual chicken-little... feeling; one that doesn't seem to factor interest rates, growth, GDP, the ratio of debt-to-GDP, etc.. - a "feeling" that postures around forced/fake morality that always aims to "guilt" over future generations of, "the kids, the kids"!

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #108 on: March 09, 2020, 02:05:09 pm »
Do you think infinite growth is a reasonable expectation on a planet where it is uncertain the present economy is sustainable in the long term, let alone infinite growth?

There are many factors that influence growth: goods, services, inflation

Since 80% of the economy is services, and inflation (devaluation) shows no sign of changing direction, Yes I think growth is a reasonable expectation.

Offline wilber

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #109 on: March 09, 2020, 04:14:44 pm »
There are many factors that influence growth: goods, services, inflation

Since 80% of the economy is services, and inflation (devaluation) shows no sign of changing direction, Yes I think growth is a reasonable expectation.

So what do you think these services are for? Inflation isn’t growth, it is devaluation.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #110 on: March 09, 2020, 04:46:03 pm »
Again, you are depending on infinite growth in order to support infinite borrowing. Do you think infinite growth is a reasonable expectation on a planet where it is uncertain the present economy is sustainable in the long term, let alone infinite growth?

If there is no infinite growth the entire world economy collapses.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #111 on: March 09, 2020, 05:03:16 pm »
If there is no infinite growth the entire world economy collapses.

DOW down 2200. TSX down 1600 today. Biggest drop since 87 crash. Glad only about 30% of my portfolio is equities. Wish it was less right now.

How can there be infinite growth on a finite planet?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 05:05:39 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #112 on: March 09, 2020, 05:13:53 pm »
How can there be infinite growth on a finite planet?

Our economy is disjoint from our environment. I have been hammering that point for years, but everyone focuses on dollars and not doughnuts (donuts).

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #113 on: March 09, 2020, 05:20:23 pm »
DOW down 2200. TSX down 1600 today. Biggest drop since 87 crash. Glad only about 30% of my portfolio is equities. Wish it was less right now.

How can there be infinite growth on a finite planet?

Infinite universe.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #114 on: March 09, 2020, 05:32:06 pm »
Our economy is disjoint from our environment. I have been hammering that point for years, but everyone focuses on dollars and not doughnuts (donuts).

Yes it is. Save us from “environmentalists”  who think we can have unlimited growth.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #115 on: March 09, 2020, 08:54:37 pm »
That's a weird statement.  Explain ?

Offline wilber

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #116 on: March 09, 2020, 09:37:16 pm »
That's a weird statement.  Explain ?
What's weird about it. We have people telling us that we are destroying the environment with over consumption while they tell us we can keep borrowing because growth is infinite because people will consume even more.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline MH

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2020, 09:54:56 pm »
Which side are YOU on then?

Offline wilber

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #118 on: March 09, 2020, 09:57:24 pm »
Which side are YOU on then?

The two aren't compatible, it isn't a matter of being on one side or the other.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: Economics Culture
« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2020, 05:14:11 am »
How can there be infinite growth on a finite planet?

This is why I'm confused: aren't you a centre-conservative ?

Growth means growth of the "economy", which is a man-made idea of the movement of goods and services of "value".

So if I come up with a wheelbarrow that is easier to use, with smaller tires, I have created something I can trade for more goods and services.  The economy has now "grown" even though I am using something with less material.  New services can grow the economy and not degrade the planet.  And if humanity is to survive, we eventually have to leave the planet anyway.

Have some imagination.
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