Author Topic: Extracting bundles of cells culture  (Read 317 times)

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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2021, 10:14:36 am »
I'm with Mrs. Cartman on abortion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxHQJiqYqeM

I think you ought to be able to abort a foetus until they learn to show some respect.
Time for bed said Zebedee...
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2021, 03:06:26 pm »
We should change he name of this to 'Controlling Women Culture.'

Shaming people with accusations of misogyny and "controlling women" is a nonsensical argument.  I don't give a crap what a woman does with her body.  Any woman is free to cut off her limbs or get a boob or nose job or add another pair of arms and dye her skin green and nobody would stop her.  But as soon as a woman's body supports the life of another human body that she created through your own willful and consensual actions then yes it is my business because another innocent human life is involved that is being created and killed through irresponsible and preventable actions.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2021, 03:11:40 pm »
Why is one illegal, and the other isnít? 

Both are letting someone die...   thereís virtually no difference in the outcome.  There might not even be any difference in the amount of suffering. 

 So whatís the difference?

Because one is murder and the other isn't.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2021, 04:44:26 pm »
Because one is murder and the other isn't.

Abortion isnít murder either.  So now youíre ok with abortion?   

I asked why is one illegal, and you practically answered ďcuz it isĒ.  Oh boy...   You havenít really even thought about it much, have you?  Itís like I have to hold your hand through this....

WHY is one considered murder and the other isnít?  Both have the exact same effect.  Think about it....

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2021, 06:55:33 pm »
WHY is one considered murder and the other isnít?  Both have the exact same effect.  Think about it....

What's the different between between stabbing your 5 year old child in the heart and killing them vs not giving them your kidney and they die.?  Both have the exact same effect.  Think about it...

If you want to argue that parents not giving kidneys is some kind of murder ok we can have that debate elsewhere, like it said i get the argument.  But it's not the exact same thing as killing a fetus or stabbing a 5 year old.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2021, 07:11:53 pm »
What's the different between between stabbing your 5 year old child in the heart and killing them vs not giving them your kidney and they die.?  Both have the exact same effect.  Think about it...

If you want to argue that parents not giving kidneys is some kind of murder ok we can have that debate elsewhere, like it said i get the argument.  But it's not the exact same thing as killing a fetus or stabbing a 5 year old.

You have completely missed the point and twisted the question.  Clearly, youíre not interested in an honest conversation, or youíre too stupid... not sure which. 

But I will give you the answer why you can kill a child by withholding a kidney, but you canít by withholding food. 

The difference is the parentís bodily autonomy, which is held to a higher value than a childís life.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2021, 07:52:34 pm »
About half of everyone who has an abortion reports to using birth control.

Ejaculating inside a woman's ying-yang without a condom because she's on the pill isn't enough protection to mitigate all pregnancy risks.  If you used the pill, use a condom, and then use the rhythm method the odds of pregnancy are zero or very close to zero.

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Getting an abortion is taking responsibility.

No it isn't.  Engaging in risky behaviour because it's fun without using the proper precautions when life and death of another human is at stake isn't being responsible at all.  Abortion is taking the most convenient and selfish way out after making a severe mistake.  It's buyer's remorse.  What's the reason to sympathize with the rights of the woman & partner over the rights of the baby?  The parents puts themselves in this situation, the baby didn't.  The baby is 100% innocent.  The baby is the victim, not the mother.  Do you understand this?  I'm not the bad guy here I can assure you.

800,000 unborn humans are killed every year due to abortion.  Stack them inside a big room and look inside and what would you think?  It's like a genocide against the unwanted unborn, and I'm trying to prevent this from happening.

As I said, I'm not even so much against abortion, I'm more against what leads to abortions, which is irresponsible sexual behaviour.  I'm not ok with people having risky orgasms, creating a life, then killing it.  It's ethically reprehensible.

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It's also telling that you see being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term with all the risks that entails, and then potentially having one's life derailed forever as a justifiable and proportional punishment for having sex.

My goal isn't to punish anyone.  I also understand the major consequences on the mother's life of raising a child.  But I also understand the consequences for the baby, which is death.  People don't get to understand the consequences on the mother for raising an unwanted child, but downplay or ignore the consequences of having risky sex.

IMO the solution isn't abortions.  It's constant education on safe sex, sex ed., and the life and death consequences of risky sex, and access to affordable or free birth control.  It's parents and teachers and governments drilling this stuff into their kids heads.  Fact: In NYC there are more black children aborted annually than are born.  That's a public health crisis and a human rights crisis and an unsafe sex crisis.

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Also one of the most common reasons for abortions are because the woman is not able to afford a child (and a significant proportion of those who have abortions are already parents btw). So the fact you don't care about the circumstances in which these children would be born into says a lot.
Of course I care.  That's a reason I want to eliminate unwanted abortions as much as possible.  If you can't afford kids then don't engage in risky sex.  There's NO EXCUSES for it.  Condoms are cheap or free.  The pill isn't expensive.  If you can't afford them don't have sex.  If you're scared to go to the doctor then don't have sex, it's not an excuse.  Time for people to adult the eff up when there's lives on the line.

It comes down to behaving responsibly and accepting and/or mitigating risks.  It's called taking responsibility for your actions.  It's called "delaying gratification".  This is the very essence of what it means to be an adult.  You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, and flush the "problem" down the toilet.  It says a lot that this behaviour doesn't seem to outrage you and others as much or more than pro-lifers do.

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Indeed most pro-lifers don't care about supporting mothers or kids once the thing has cleared the birth canal. A great example of the rank hypocrisy of the pro life movement is the anti-abortion activist Abby Johnson who had two abortions herself before pivoting to the lucrative prolife grift and a life that would not have been possible if she hadn't been able to get abortions in the first place.

Yes there's many pro-lifers and conservatives in general who are stupid and/or a-holes.  As I said, i'm sure there's some pro-lifers who do just want to "control women".  I don't really associate with these types.  Bad pro-life arguments don't invalidate my arguments.

I don't consider myself a "conservative", even if I have some conservative social views.  I'm economically left of center or centrist (i'm -4, -4 on the Political Compass), I believe in universal healthcare, affordable education like in Canada, strictly curtailing political donations & lobbying, reducing income inequality, support gay marriage and any rational LGBT rights etc.  So I'm not a neoliberal in supporting mothers and children.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2021, 08:17:16 pm »
You have completely missed the point and twisted the question.  Clearly, youíre not interested in an honest conversation, or youíre too stupid... not sure which.

Insults are not an argument and will be ignored from now on, instead of me engaging.  If you can manage engaging in a conversation without insults then i'll gladly do so.

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But I will give you the answer why you can kill a child by withholding a kidney, but you canít by withholding food. 

The difference is the parentís bodily autonomy, which is held to a higher value than a childís life.

There's a big difference in the government cutting your body opening and removing a kidney without your consent, vs the government refusing to cut your body open to remove and kill your child the mother created just because the mother doesn't want it.  As I said before, one is murder.  They just aren't perfect analogies.

Unless there's r.a.pe, a mother has informed consent on pregnancy risks when having sex.  The woman gave consent for risking sperm entering her body and fertilizing her egg when she consented to the weiner entering her ying-yang.  You can't then reverse consent when you knowingly rolled the dice and lost and now another life is on the line.  It's disgustingly unethical.  If somebody wants to behave in way that creates life and then kill life it's reprehensible.  If they want to avoid this, take adequate precautions or refrain from sex like a lot of other people do.  There's countless millions of sexually active people who have never had an unwanted pregnancy.  It's not that hard.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2021, 09:36:39 pm »
Ejaculating inside a woman's ying-yang without a condom because she's on the pill isn't enough protection to mitigate all pregnancy risks.  If you used the pill, use a condom, and then use the rhythm method the odds of pregnancy are zero or very close to zero.

Lol rhythm method. How old are you?

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No it isn't.  Engaging in risky behaviour because it's fun without using the proper precautions when life and death of another human is at stake isn't being responsible at all.  Abortion is taking the most convenient and selfish way out after making a severe mistake.  It's buyer's remorse.  What's the reason to sympathize with the rights of the woman & partner over the rights of the baby? 

Because they are human beings with agency and the fetus is not.

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The parents puts themselves in this situation, the baby didn't.  The baby is 100% innocent.  The baby is the victim, not the mother.  Do you understand this?  I'm not the bad guy here I can assure you.

Don't care. Could not possibly care less.

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800,000 unborn humans are killed every year due to abortion.  Stack them inside a big room and look inside and what would you think?  It's like a genocide against the unwanted unborn, and I'm trying to prevent this from happening.

3.1 MILLION children under 5 die of malnutrition every year. Where's your concern for them?

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As I said, I'm not even so much against abortion, I'm more against what leads to abortions, which is irresponsible sexual behaviour.  I'm not ok with people having risky orgasms, creating a life, then killing it.  It's ethically reprehensible.

Ah so you ARE about policing people's bodies.

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My goal isn't to punish anyone.  I also understand the major consequences on the mother's life of raising a child.  But I also understand the consequences for the baby, which is death.  People don't get to understand the consequences on the mother for raising an unwanted child, but downplay or ignore the consequences of having risky sex.

It doesn't seem like you do!

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Of course I care.  That's a reason I want to eliminate unwanted abortions as much as possible.  If you can't afford kids then don't engage in risky sex.  There's NO EXCUSES for it.  Condoms are cheap or free.  The pill isn't expensive.  If you can't afford them don't have sex.  If you're scared to go to the doctor then don't have sex, it's not an excuse.  Time for people to adult the eff up when there's lives on the line.

Affordable/free childcare, extensive maternity leave and parental benefits would go a lot further than telling people not to have sex, a strategy which has never worked ever.

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It comes down to behaving responsibly and accepting and/or mitigating risks.  It's called taking responsibility for your actions.  It's called "delaying gratification".  This is the very essence of what it means to be an adult.  You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, and flush the "problem" down the toilet.  It says a lot that this behaviour doesn't seem to outrage you and others as much or more than pro-lifers do.

Except we can, darling.  ;D

I'll leave you with this, from author Sally Rooney:

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No matter how much you need a kidney donation, the law will not force another person to give you one. Consent, in the form of a donor card, is required even to remove organs from a dead body. If the foetus is a person, it is a person with a vastly expanded set of legal rights, rights available to no other class of citizen: the foetus may make free, non-consensual use of another living personís uterus and blood supply, and cause permanent, unwanted changes to another personís body. In the relationship between foetus and woman, the woman is granted fewer rights than a corpse.




Offline the_squid

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2021, 10:58:07 pm »
Insults are not an argument and will be ignored from now on, instead of me engaging.  If you can manage engaging in a conversation without insults then i'll gladly do so.

There's a big difference in the government cutting your body opening and removing a kidney without your consent, vs the government refusing to cut your body open to remove and kill your child the mother created just because the mother doesn't want it.  As I said before, one is murder.  They just aren't perfect analogies.

Unless there's r.a.pe, a mother has informed consent on pregnancy risks when having sex.  The woman gave consent for risking sperm entering her body and fertilizing her egg when she consented to the weiner entering her ying-yang.  You can't then reverse consent when you knowingly rolled the dice and lost and now another life is on the line.  It's disgustingly unethical.  If somebody wants to behave in way that creates life and then kill life it's reprehensible.  If they want to avoid this, take adequate precautions or refrain from sex like a lot of other people do.  There's countless millions of sexually active people who have never had an unwanted pregnancy.  It's not that hard.


This is an extremely immature outlook to shame a woman for becoming pregnant.

No one may tell someone else that they have to remain pregnant against their will. 

Consent to sex is not consent to being pregnant.  Consent to pregnancy is not consent to carrying out that pregnancy.

It is only about bodily autonomy.  We donít make anyone give blood to save their childís life, and we donít force someone to carry on a pregnancy for the same reasons.  Bodily autonomy. 

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2021, 08:03:29 pm »
Lol rhythm method. How old are you?

My age is totally irrelevant to my arguments and nobody's business.

The rhythm method isn't a reliable method on its own, which is why it can be paired with other methods of birth control.  Risk of pregnancy is greatly reduced if a man is able to avoid ejaculating inside the woman.

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Because they are human beings with agency and the fetus is not.

Exactly.  A fetus is a human being with no agency, and so is a baby born ie: 2 weeks ago.  They're innocent and helpless.

Please tell us the EXACT and specific point when a fetus becomes a human being?

And yes please continue trying to dehumanize the baby, it's exactly as I knew you would:

And people often try to dehumanize the baby to make it easier for themselves to legitimize killing it by insisting life doesn't begin until some arbitrary point, or by only referring to it as a "fetus" or "just a bundle of cells".

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Don't care. Could not possibly care less.

Yes I'm well aware you don't care about the innocent baby being victimized via people killing it.  Because you don't think it's a human you think it's a fetus with no agency and the woman's rights trump all of the child's.

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3.1 MILLION children under 5 die of malnutrition every year. Where's your concern for them?

That's a totally different topic.  I've worked for international development NGOs that have fed people including children and saved people's lives precisely because I do care.  You don't know anything about me.

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It doesn't seem like you do!

Your inaccurate assumptions of me are irrelevant.

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Affordable/free childcare, extensive maternity leave and parental benefits would go a lot further than telling people not to have sex, a strategy which has never worked ever.

I support most of the those benefits and they may prevent some abortions and help parents and families overall but abortions will still continue.

I have no problem with people having sex.  But if they do so without taking the proper precautions to mitigate the risks and then have a baby and then want to kill the baby that's when I care.  I've had sex many times and there's been no unwanted pregnancies.  It's not that hard.  It's sometimes inconvenient but I suck it up because creating and/or ending a human life is the most serious thing any of us will ever do and many people in our society need to take it will the responsibility that demands.

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Except we can, darling.  ;D

1. Don't call me darling, or i'll start calling you sweetheart.

2. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical.  Slavery used to be legal too.

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I'll leave you with this, from author Sally Rooney:

Are you kidding me?  Nobody is granted more rights than a woman in western society.  They can create human life and then kill that life up to about halfway or a little more than halfway through the pregnancy for whatever reason they want and however many times they want.  All for free at the cost of the taxpayer, and all without any CONSENT from baby.  The unborn has virtually no rights, nobody gives a crap.  It's not "using another woman's body", it didn't choose to be inside the woman, the woman and man put it there through their choices and actions.  It has zero choice in any of this.  Anyone with he nerve to make the argument that a fetus is exploiting or "using" anyone needs to check their heads and re-examine the events.  That's like saying slaves have more rights than anyone else because they get free food and lodging and a secure for life lol.  The unborn are 100% innocent, THEY are the one being used and exploited and totally screwed over by people unable to manage their genitals properly.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Extracting bundles of cells culture
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2021, 09:54:36 am »
My age is totally irrelevant to my arguments and nobody's business.

The rhythm method isn't a reliable method on its own, which is why it can be paired with other methods of birth control.  Risk of pregnancy is greatly reduced if a man is able to avoid ejaculating inside the woman.

Stuff happens, and the consequenses for a failure of birth control or not being able to afford birth control at all shouldn't be a forced pregnancy.

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Exactly.  A fetus is a human being with no agency, and so is a baby born ie: 2 weeks ago.  They're innocent and helpless.

Please tell us the EXACT and specific point when a fetus becomes a human being?

And yes please continue trying to dehumanize the baby, it's exactly as I knew you would:

Yes I'm well aware you don't care about the innocent baby being victimized via people killing it.  Because you don't think it's a human you think it's a fetus with no agency and the woman's rights trump all of the child's.

Yes. A organism incapable of independent thought, movement, or basic survival without literally taking its blood and nutrients from a living host should not trump the rights of a human being with agency. Simply identifying it as a human is not sufficient justification for subverting the rights of the woman to its needs.

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That's a totally different topic.  I've worked for international development NGOs that have fed people including children and saved people's lives precisely because I do care.  You don't know anything about me.

It's not a different topic, it goes straight to the fact that the pro-life movement is a sham.


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I support most of the those benefits and they may prevent some abortions and help parents and families overall but abortions will still continue.

Abortion rates have been declining for decades precisely because of the availability of birth control.

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I have no problem with people having sex.  But if they do so without taking the proper precautions to mitigate the risks and then have a baby and then want to kill the baby that's when I care.  I've had sex many times and there's been no unwanted pregnancies.  It's not that hard.  It's sometimes inconvenient but I suck it up because creating and/or ending a human life is the most serious thing any of us will ever do and many people in our society need to take it will the responsibility that demands.

Again: choosing an abortion is taking responsibility.

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Are you kidding me?  Nobody is granted more rights than a woman in western society.  They can create human life and then kill that life up to about halfway or a little more than halfway through the pregnancy for whatever reason they want and however many times they want.  All for free at the cost of the taxpayer, and all without any CONSENT from baby.  The unborn has virtually no rights, nobody gives a crap. It's not "using another woman's body", it didn't choose to be inside the woman, the woman and man put it there through their choices and actions.  It has zero choice in any of this.

Choice is irrelevant to the question.

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  Anyone with he nerve to make the argument that a fetus is exploiting or "using" anyone needs to check their heads and re-examine the events. That's like saying slaves have more rights than anyone else because they get free food and lodging and a secure for life lol.  The unborn are 100% innocent, THEY are the one being used and exploited and totally screwed over by people unable to manage their genitals properly.

You've obviously never been pregnant.

And of course the fetus has no choice: it's literally incapable of making a choice. House pets have more agency.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 12:16:24 pm by Black Dog »
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