Author Topic: Just give the money to the poor  (Read 88 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Just give the money to the poor
« on: April 07, 2022, 07:33:03 pm »
This is concept some have talked about.  Instead of building big government programs for the poor, just give them the money.  People will typically know how to use it most effectively for themselves.

For instance, instead of building "affordable housing" units, just give low income people the money for rent and let the go find their own place to rent.  No properties to build or manage.  For daycare, just give people money for it and let them find their own daycare instead of subsidizing it.

This is different than guaranteed income.  It's just some handouts or tax breaks for particular necessary goods/services.  A simple money transfer or tax return based on income and no big bureaucracy or insurance program to cover anything, plus it gives people more choice.  Your parents can look after your kids?  Great, pocket the daycare money and spend it on shelter, clothes, save it for your kids for college etc.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2022, 11:32:50 am »
This is concept some have talked about.  Instead of building big government programs for the poor, just give them the money.  People will typically know how to use it most effectively for themselves.

For instance, instead of building "affordable housing" units, just give low income people the money for rent and let the go find their own place to rent.  No properties to build or manage.  For daycare, just give people money for it and let them find their own daycare instead of subsidizing it.

This is different than guaranteed income. It's just some handouts or tax breaks for particular necessary goods/services.  A simple money transfer or tax return based on income and no big bureaucracy or insurance program to cover anything, plus it gives people more choice.  Your parents can look after your kids?  Great, pocket the daycare money and spend it on shelter, clothes, save it for your kids for college etc.

I don't disagree with your overall premise much, as removing administrative burdens would benefit people and reduce program costs, but I have a couple of quibbles. For one, giving money for housing or daycare spaces doesn't solve the fact there's not enough of either to go around. Second, I'm not sure how it's different from a UBI if you don't actually have to spend the money on the thing for which you're given the money. Also would this be considered income and thus subject to taxation? Because I can see people (not me) getting pissed at the idea of someone making $30 grand a year getting the same money as someone making $300K with no strings attached.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 02:25:56 pm by Black Dog »
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Offline MH

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2022, 02:06:27 pm »
UBI then.  It's UBI

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2022, 02:39:36 pm »
UBI then.  It's UBI

Conspiracy Graham will argue for one thing one day, and then the complete opposite the next. 


[Ö]Maybe our social programs should be reformed to make them easier to access and use, instead of putting our hands up and just giving everyone cash.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 03:00:47 pm »
I don't disagree with your overall premise much, as removing administrative burdens would benefit people and reduce program costs, but I have a couple of quibbles. For one, giving money for housing or daycare spaces doesn't solve the fact there's not enough of either to go around. Second, I'm not sure how it's different from a UBI if you don't actually have to spend the money on the thing for which you're given the money. Also would this be considered income and thus subject to taxation? Because I can see people (not me) getting pissed at the idea of someone making $30 grand a year getting the same money as someone making $300K with no strings attached.

My thought is you let the private sector be free enough do its thing and respond to demand for housing and daycare spots etc, while at the same time also regulating it enough so people aren't taken advantage of.

If there is a lack of housing I would say instead of building a gazillion affordable units they should look at all of the red tape by municipal, provincial govs etc that is throttling building/supply, among other factors.  I have read that red tape is a big problem. Canada is 2nd last in terms of lowest # of housing units per capita among the G7, and yet generally we have tons of land to build on, we shouldn't be trailing the UK.

I would think the market would respond to daycare spaces as well wouldn't it?  If there's people willing to pay money why aren't there more spaces?  And how would or could gov help with that?

In terms of income I don't see why you would give money for housing or dental or daycare etc to people making good money, they don't need the governments help on that.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2022, 03:01:28 pm »
Conspiracy Graham will argue for one thing one day, and then the complete opposite the next.

You took what I said out of context.   Your reading comprehension is poor.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 03:18:07 pm »
My thought is you let the private sector be free enough do its thing and respond to demand for housing and daycare spots etc, while at the same time also regulating it enough so people aren't taken advantage of.

The private sector isn't doing a great job on the supply side there now and it's not because of a lack of demand.

Quote
If there is a lack of housing I would say instead of building a gazillion affordable units they should look at all of the red tape by municipal, provincial govs etc that is throttling building/supply, among other factors.  I have read that red tape is a big problem. Canada is 2nd last in terms of lowest # of housing units per capita among the G7, and yet generally we have tons of land to build on, we shouldn't be trailing the UK.

The problem is it's very hard to build housing people can afford in places people want to live. I'm not sure what specific kind of red tape you mean, but IMO, exclusionary zoning is a major factor in throttling the supply and should be eliminate in most places.

[quoteI would think the market would respond to daycare spaces as well wouldn't it?  If there's people willing to pay money why aren't there more spaces?  And how would or could gov help with that?[/quote]

I'm curious to see if there's a growth there now that the feds are making daycare more affordable through the subsidy.

Quote
In terms of income I don't see why you would give money for housing or dental or daycare etc to people making good money, they don't need the governments help on that.

Then you're back to creating some kind of administration for determining who gets the money in the first place. I say give everybody the same money and then claw it back at tax time for the people who don't need it.

Online Retro Shady

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Re: Just give the money to the poor
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 03:47:01 pm »
One of the problems with housing is that the government has immigration on full blast, so supply hasnít been able to catch up.  Itís an extensive process to develop land, especially with government regulations, etc.  But itís typical.  Government puts obstacles in the way, and then complains that the private sector isnít doing a good enough job.  Itís ridiculous.