Author Topic: Defund the Police  (Read 11834 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #180 on: April 16, 2021, 02:16:21 pm »
Anyway, the problem is cops are trained to be afraid for their lives at all times, which leads them to react as if they are in danger even when they are not.

I agree.  But they're also afraid for their lives.  Many of the people they're dealing with are armed.  I'd give the middle finger to a fellow driver in Canada, I don't do it in the US because my Cali friend told me not to.  The stupid gun culture down there is a part of this, and that's never going to change.  They can improve the police but the country is frankly hopeless overall.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #181 on: April 16, 2021, 09:32:08 pm »
The stupid gun culture down there is a part of this, and that's never going to change.  They can improve the police but the country is frankly hopeless overall.
There's also been about 25 years or more of near constant conditioning of society towards cracking down and getting tough on crime. This pledge is as much a political fixture as lowering taxes and promising a chicken in every pot. Couple that with so-called reality shows and entertainment that glorifies police violence and its no wonder things have gone so sideways.

And to be sure, this is NOT just about race, many parents of mentally compromised kids have the cop talk with them too for the very same reason parents of black kids do.  I'd like to see parents lobbying their schools to introduce the topic in their curriculums.  Much of the most meaningful action taken towards climate change has been achieved by local governments with the express goal of motivating larger governments to follow their example so perhaps we could do the same in this regard.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #182 on: April 18, 2021, 02:13:57 pm »
I agree.  But they're also afraid for their lives.  Many of the people they're dealing with are armed.  I'd give the middle finger to a fellow driver in Canada, I don't do it in the US because my Cali friend told me not to.  The stupid gun culture down there is a part of this, and that's never going to change.  They can improve the police but the country is frankly hopeless overall.

The fear that causes cops to shoot first and ask question later is part of cop culture, not a rational response to the prevalence of guns. It's also linked to racist assumptions about Black criminality and fear of the Other that permeates American culture as a whole, but police training is very specifically geared to conditioning cops to treat every interaction with civilians as a potential shoot out.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #183 on: April 18, 2021, 02:51:22 pm »
The fear that causes cops to shoot first and ask question later is part of cop culture, not a rational response to the prevalence of guns. It's also linked to racist assumptions about Black criminality and fear of the Other that permeates American culture as a whole, but police training is very specifically geared to conditioning cops to treat every interaction with civilians as a potential shoot out.

I think they're all factors.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #184 on: April 18, 2021, 04:34:39 pm »
I think they're all factors.

The point is the notion that police should fear for their lives during every interaction with citizens is fallacious, whereas you seemed to imply it was a justifiable mindset due to the prevalence of guns.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #185 on: April 18, 2021, 04:48:44 pm »
The point is the notion that police should fear for their lives during every interaction with citizens is fallacious, whereas you seemed to imply it was a justifiable mindset due to the prevalence of guns.

I never made that point.  My point was that police in the US fear for their lives more than cops in Canada do because of the far higher prevalence of guns in the US.  There's no way this isn't a factor (among others) for why cops seem to be more trigger happy down there.

If I as a Canadian fear for my life more while in the US I don't see why cops wouldn't also.  The gun ownership stats and gun shooting stats are clear.  I don't see how it's not safer to be a cop (or a private citizen) in BC than in California based on the gun stats.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #186 on: April 19, 2021, 10:22:53 am »
I never made that point.  My point was that police in the US fear for their lives more than cops in Canada do because of the far higher prevalence of guns in the US.  There's no way this isn't a factor (among others) for why cops seem to be more trigger happy down there.

If I as a Canadian fear for my life more while in the US I don't see why cops wouldn't also.  The gun ownership stats and gun shooting stats are clear.  I don't see how it's not safer to be a cop (or a private citizen) in BC than in California based on the gun stats.

So, again, you think the cops' fears are justifiable?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #187 on: April 19, 2021, 02:54:42 pm »
So, again, you think the cops' fears are justifiable?

I understand why they're fearful and can be quick on the trigger.  That doesn't justify them shooting people when they shouldn't, like the recent teen in Chicago.  I'm saying the fear makes bad behaviour like this more likely.  Imagine if another cop in the dept was shot the month prior by a kid with a gun and this cop was then overly vigilant due to fear?  There's nowhere as violent as the south of Chicago in Canada.  Chicago had 769 homicides in 2020, Toronto had 71, and both cities are about the same size.

Cops are human and have emotions (fear, hatred, anger etc), and the ones that can't control these emotions do bad things like this, and the fact they get away with it makes it much worse.  In 30 years cops might be AI drones without emotions interfering with enforcement and we'll all be better off.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #188 on: April 20, 2021, 10:40:35 am »
I understand why they're fearful and can be quick on the trigger.  That doesn't justify them shooting people when they shouldn't, like the recent teen in Chicago.  I'm saying the fear makes bad behaviour like this more likely.  Imagine if another cop in the dept was shot the month prior by a kid with a gun and this cop was then overly vigilant due to fear?  There's nowhere as violent as the south of Chicago in Canada.  Chicago had 769 homicides in 2020, Toronto had 71, and both cities are about the same size.

Cops are human and have emotions (fear, hatred, anger etc), and the ones that can't control these emotions do bad things like this, and the fact they get away with it makes it much worse.  In 30 years cops might be AI drones without emotions interfering with enforcement and we'll all be better off.

Another part of it is that cops, despite all the rhetoric that they're out there putting their lives on the line to serve and protect, think their lives are more valuable than any civilian, which is why they'd rather shoot than take a second to assess a situation. They even have a little saying about it!
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Offline Black Dog

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #190 on: April 20, 2021, 04:30:10 pm »
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #191 on: April 20, 2021, 04:56:21 pm »
Justice served.

Now to make sure this stuff doesn't happen again.

Agreed, but the reaction from the right wing to this verdict is already showing they consider the police's ability to murder black people without any sort of accountability to be an essential aspect of the job.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #192 on: April 20, 2021, 05:01:21 pm »
Agreed, but the reaction from the right wing to this verdict is already showing they consider the police's ability to murder black people without any sort of accountability to be an essential aspect of the job.

What are they saying?

I didn't think he'd get the 2nd degree murder conviction, but I thought he'd get 3rd degree and manslaughter.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #193 on: April 20, 2021, 11:12:03 pm »
What are they saying?

I didn't think he'd get the 2nd degree murder conviction, but I thought he'd get 3rd degree and manslaughter.

Here's a good clearinghouse of their shithousery if you can stomach it.

I expect the right is disappointed for two reasons: #1 being a cop was held accountable for murdering a Black person, which is intended to be a job perk and #2 there's no civil unrest as a result so cops can't get out and beat the **** out of unarmed people, which is another perk.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #194 on: April 21, 2021, 08:59:47 am »
I agree.  But they're also afraid for their lives.  Many of the people they're dealing with are armed.
This completely falls apart when you look at how many unarmed, compliant black people in the US and indigenous people in Canada have been murdered by cops over the years. The cops disproportionately escalate their response to violence when they're dealing with people who are not white. I'm sure some of the time they do this unconsciously but the perception of violence and risk is absolutely a racially biased phenomenon. This is what systemic racism means. It's not that individual cops are prejudice; it's that people's skin colour play a role into cops perception of risk whether they're personally aware of it or not.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 09:01:44 am by cybercoma »