Author Topic: Defund the Police  (Read 11500 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #315 on: June 30, 2021, 10:52:33 am »
There's your trouble: you're removing agency from the highly profitable mega corporation and casting them as helpless victims of people palming pregnancy tests. Incredibly cucked behaviour.

No, you are by being incredibly selective.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #316 on: June 30, 2021, 10:56:34 am »
There's your trouble: you're removing agency from the highly profitable mega corporation and casting them as helpless victims of people palming pregnancy tests. Incredibly cucked behaviour.

Who said they’re helpless?  They’re quite capable of making back money in theft by cutting costs at their supplier level.   That doesn’t sound helpless at all.

It sounds like you are lacking imagination when you say that stealing from big companies is a “victimless crime”.  That’s just idiotic.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #317 on: June 30, 2021, 11:47:53 am »
Who said they’re helpless?  They’re quite capable of making back money in theft by cutting costs at their supplier level.   That doesn’t sound helpless at all.

Because to you, they have no other choice but to make back money by using sweatshops when in fact, they could simply eat the costs and not facilitate human rights abuses.

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It sounds like you are lacking imagination when you say that stealing from big companies is a “victimless crime”.  That’s just idiotic.

Blaming shoplifting for a corporation's choices to pursue obscene profits over human rights is bootlicker behaviour.

You're right though I lack the imagination to conceive of a fantasy world where poor innocent corporations wouldn't exploit labour if it wasn't for those dang shoplifters.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 11:51:40 am by Black Dog »

Offline kimmy

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #318 on: October 02, 2021, 02:14:01 pm »
...
They (and the people giving the orders) clearly have some amount of flexibility when it comes to enforcing them, because we saw that the George Floyd protests were allowed to proceed, and a couple of weeks ago the Glasgow Rangers footie fans had a big unlawful celebration and the police didn't do anything about it. It's worth mentioning that the group attempting to organize the vigil, Reclaim The Streets, had attempted to work with police and was rebuffed at every turn.  They went to court to challenge the police interpretation of the laws; the police fought them in court.  That was a foolish move, because not only did people attend the vigil despite Reclaim The Streets cancelling the official event, but the police actions have further inflamed tensions to the point that there have been additional protests every night since.  And, to demonstrate that they do indeed have some leeway, the police have learned their lesson and largely left the protesters alone.

A cynic might propose that the George Floyd protests and the Glasgow Rangers celebrations were allowed to proceed uninterrupted because BLM protestors and football hooligans will kick your ass and set your police cars on fire if you try and stop them, and that the Sarah Everard vigil was not allowed to proceed because women won't kick your ass or set your police car on fire.

But UK women should set some police cars on fire, because UK police have been failing them to an immense degree for a long time. 



This past week Sarah Everard's killer was sentenced. Some of the details that came out during the sentencing hearing were extremely upsetting. Not only was he a police officer, he also abducted Everard under the pretense of an arrest. She was walking home, he stopped her claiming she was violating covid restrictions. He handcuffed her and put her in his police vehicle.  Witnesses who saw the interaction said they "assumed she must have done something wrong."  Afterwards he transferred her from the police car to a rental vehicle, drove her to the woods in Kent, raped her, strangled her, and tried to burn her body.


There have also been a bunch of infuriating statements given by the Met (the Metropolitan London Police Force) since this became public. They released guidelines for women to follow if you're concerned that the cop arresting you might be a murderer attempting to abduct you. ("Ask probing questions!" "Know your rights!" "Run away!" "Get Help!" "Phone the police!")  A police commissioner said on BBC "she shouldn't have submitted to that arrest. We need women to better understand their rights!"   As if resisting an arrest from a police officer was ever a viable option for Sarah Everard or any other woman who might find herself in that situation.

The Met and the government have known all of the details of Sarah Everard's murder for months, but have only provided all of these helpful hints for women in the couple of days since this information became public.  If this was actually about making women safe, they'd have provided this "advice" much sooner. But it's not, it's about public relations. There's also a lot of performative contrition going on in England right now. "We are so sorry."  "We know we have a lot of work to do to rebuild the trust." "We are going to get to the bottom of what went wrong."

We learned that the murderer's colleagues thought so highly of his character that they nicknamed him "the rapist". He and other members of the force were part of a social media group where they exchanged misogynist jokes. We learned that there were indecent exposure complaints regarding the murderer that should have been a red flag to alert the police to what kind of guy their colleague was. But three different police forces over almost 20 years didn't seem to care enough to bother.   We learned that the vetting process was more or less a sham.

The Met's commissioner, Dame Cressida Dick, assured Londoners that the murderer is "a bad 'un" who doesn't represent the whole force. But clearly there's institutional rot in the Met as in many other police forces, and clearly there are a whole bunch more "bad 'uns" who gave cover to this guy for a long time.

 -k
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Offline MH

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #319 on: October 02, 2021, 04:56:54 pm »
The Met's commissioner, Dame Cressida Dick, assured Londoners that the murderer is "a bad 'un" who doesn't represent the whole force. But clearly there's institutional rot in the Met as in many other police forces, and clearly there are a whole bunch more "bad 'uns" who gave cover to this guy for a long time.
 

Institutional rot is a problem everywhere, but in policing for sure and in Canada for sure.

I really don't get the framing of this London police murder at all.  Why would the police release 'guidelines' at all, unless they are accepting the idea that there are murderers in the police ?  It seems like a horrible error that he was on the force, and an institutional flaw that he wasn't found out as well as the entire response to this.

Toronto's Police are not trusted and the chief seems to be a strange kind of appointed king.  The anti-vax squad decided to inundate a local restaurant and she was unable to get the attending officers to do anything about them until celebrities started 'tweeting'.  Who knows what drives these things ?


Offline eyeball

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #320 on: October 02, 2021, 06:51:06 pm »
Institutional rot is a problem everywhere...

...Who knows what drives these things ?
I still maintain the answer is the near total absence of accountability at the top echelons of our public institutions - a source from which decency and integrity can trickle down thru our institutions.

What's bubbling up instead is dissolving public trust and basically locking our civilization into it's declining trajectory.

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Offline MH

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #321 on: October 02, 2021, 07:56:46 pm »
I still maintain the answer is the near total absence of accountability at the top echelons of our public institutions - a source from which decency and integrity can trickle down thru our institutions.

Funny enough this came up recently in a private conversation and I was reminded of the ghost power of ... the deputy ministers.  They are unknown, unreplaceable and in all likelihood not the most forward thinking purveyors of institutional achievement.

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What's bubbling up instead is dissolving public trust and basically locking our civilization into it's declining trajectory.

I will maintain that the basic institutions are still there and the system could be flipped positive without much more than a popular leader with good ideas.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #322 on: October 02, 2021, 08:12:47 pm »
I still maintain the answer is the near total absence of accountability at the top echelons of our public institutions - a source from which decency and integrity can trickle down thru our institutions.

What's bubbling up instead is dissolving public trust and basically locking our civilization into it's declining trajectory.

Accountability needs to happen with the mayor and city council, who must keep the police chiefs accountable, because they're the ones who keep their cops accountable, but it doesn't seem to happen.  Rules/laws of accountability are meaningless if not enforced.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #323 on: October 02, 2021, 08:20:23 pm »
We learned that the murderer's colleagues thought so highly of his character that they nicknamed him "the rapist". He and other members of the force were part of a social media group where they exchanged misogynist jokes. We learned that there were indecent exposure complaints regarding the murderer that should have been a red flag to alert the police to what kind of guy their colleague was. But three different police forces over almost 20 years didn't seem to care enough to bother.   We learned that the vetting process was more or less a sham.

The Met's commissioner, Dame Cressida Dick, assured Londoners that the murderer is "a bad 'un" who doesn't represent the whole force. But clearly there's institutional rot in the Met as in many other police forces, and clearly there are a whole bunch more "bad 'uns" who gave cover to this guy for a long time.

 -k

There are no good cops.  A good cop that looks the other way when wrongdoing happens is not a good cop.  The only good cops are the ones that resign because of this fact.

Most people in general care more about their jobs than ethics.  That's pretty sad.  Sometimes it makes sense when you have a family to feed, other times people are just selfish jerks.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #324 on: October 03, 2021, 09:57:01 am »
 
Funny enough this came up recently in a private conversation and I was reminded of the ghost power of ... the deputy ministers.  They are unknown, unreplaceable and in all likelihood not the most forward thinking purveyors of institutional achievement.
The so called deepstate - the agents of THEY. 🙄


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I will maintain that the basic institutions are still there and the system could be flipped positive without much more than a popular leader with good ideas.
I'm reminded of darker fictional characters like the Mule from the Foundation Trilogy and the Rainmaker from Looper.

Maybe it was easier to be the leader you describe in the past without so much media to distract and dilute their effect. Which these days is to yield bad leaders with populist ideals.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 12:57:43 pm by eyeball »

Online Bubbermiley

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #325 on: October 03, 2021, 10:45:14 am »
Funny enough this came up recently in a private conversation and I was reminded of the ghost power of ... the deputy ministers.  They are unknown, unreplaceable and in all likelihood not the most forward thinking purveyors of institutional achievement.
How are they unreplaceable?

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #326 on: October 03, 2021, 11:29:29 am »
There are no good cops.

You don't think this is just a wee bit overstated?

Offline MH

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #327 on: October 03, 2021, 01:22:53 pm »
How are they unreplaceable?

They are viewed as unreplaceable because they ARE the departments they govern.  Are they ?  I can't say for sure - I think that Canada would do well to use standard management practices in government, vs. what they do today.  My experiences dealing with government have shown them to be poorly managed.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #328 on: October 03, 2021, 03:10:25 pm »
You don't think this is just a wee bit overstated?

Is a cop who looks the other way when they see wrongdoing a good cop?  Because that's literally every cop.
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: Defund the Police
« Reply #329 on: October 06, 2021, 06:57:12 pm »
Is a cop who looks the other way when they see wrongdoing a good cop?  Because that's literally every cop.

Done a survey, have you?