Author Topic: Culture Culture  (Read 2799 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2021, 03:00:30 pm »


It isn't about total revenues, its about excess revenues. Per capita, Albertans send over $3K more to Ottawa in taxes than they receive in federal spending. Per capita, Albertans send about $1500 more tax revenues to Ottawa than Ontarians. If you do some simple arithmetic, that comes to a bit less than the have not provinces receive more in federal spending than they sent to Ottawa in tax revenues.

The link you posted backs up everything I have said.

Provinces do not benefit from other provinces sales taxes nor do provincial sales taxes have anything to do with federal revenues or federal payments to provinces. Whether a province charges a sales tax is strictly a provincial issue.

It's 8% per person more.  I provided the figures in a link from Stats Can.  Do you have a link ?

And you didn't acknowledge that we pay Ontario Sales Tax and Alberta doesn't.  That accounts for matching from Ottawa right ?  It's the funding formula.  Ontario pays more in tax.

Offline wilber

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2021, 03:16:29 pm »
It's 8% per person more.  I provided the figures in a link from Stats Can.  Do you have a link ?

And you didn't acknowledge that we pay Ontario Sales Tax and Alberta doesn't.  That accounts for matching from Ottawa right ?  It's the funding formula.  Ontario pays more in tax.

I donít care if it is 50%, not one penny of it goes to another government or province. 100% of it goes to the Ontario government and is used in Ontario alone. Why would you think provincial sales taxes have anything to do with federal revenues or spending?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2021, 03:18:56 pm »
Weíve gone through this a hundred times.  Your refusal to recognize that the richest part of the country pays more because theyíre richer and gets less because, being the richest part of the country they donít need as much money spent there, is the dumb part.

Itís not about figuresÖ. I agree that Albertans pay more and receive less spent there.   Itís about ideology.  And your ideology that says wealthy Canadians should pay less and wealthy parts of the country should receive the same amount in fed taxes spent there is patently absurd.

Where do you think the money comes from for the provinces which get more in federal spending than they send to Ottawa in revenues, the Tooth Fairy? I agree that rich provinces shouldnít be complaining but the fact remains, without Alberta there would be a 20B hole in the Federal budget.

On Edit.

At no time have I ever said wealthy Canadians should pay less, nor have I ever said they shouldn't contribute more than they get.

I couldn't care less what Alberta or any province but my own charges as a sales tax. That is entirely their business and it has nothing to do with me.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 05:07:42 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2021, 03:33:56 pm »
without Alberta there would be a 20B hole in the Federal budget.

Ok.  So what?  We can play that game with every province.  You want to create a bigger hole by giving a rich province more in federal tax revenue that they donít need.

If Canada didnít have oil, we would have less tax revenue.  I thought this would be self evident.  We can also play this game with every natural resource.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 04:03:38 pm by Squidward von Squidderson »

Offline MH

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2021, 04:28:37 pm »
I donít care if it is 50%, not one penny of it goes to another government or province. 100% of it goes to the Ontario government and is used in Ontario alone. Why would you think provincial sales taxes have anything to do with federal revenues or spending?

That's the funding formula for equalization payments that you're always complaining about, last updated by Stephen Harper

Offline wilber

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2021, 04:56:49 pm »
That's the funding formula for equalization payments that you're always complaining about, last updated by Stephen Harper

The only thing I am complaining about is the absolute refusal of some to acknowledge where the money comes from.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2021, 04:58:54 pm »
Ok.  So what?  We can play that game with every province.  You want to create a bigger hole by giving a rich province more in federal tax revenue that they donít need.

If Canada didnít have oil, we would have less tax revenue.  I thought this would be self evident.  We can also play this game with every natural resource.

No you can't, depending on the year, only three or four provinces put more into federal coffers than they get back. That surplus goes to the rest that receive more in spending than they contribute. What do you think equalization means?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2021, 05:22:26 pm »
No you can't, depending on the year, only three or four provinces put more into federal coffers than they get back. That surplus goes to the rest that receive more in spending than they contribute. What do you think equalization means?

Rich province contributes the most.  So?

Offline wilber

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2021, 06:09:27 pm »
Rich province contributes the most.  So?

So if they weren't rich there would be no equalization and every province would be poorer.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2021, 07:36:06 pm »
The only thing I am complaining about is the absolute refusal of some to acknowledge where the money comes from.

ie. Ontario

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2021, 07:51:23 pm »
1. Because why try something that never worked in the first place ?

2. No, they were devoted to Britain from what I understand, and the Queen.

3. No - I think I used other words like 'welcoming'.  I would also add 'industriousness' and 'pragmatic' as well as 'cooperative'. The strong sense of nation happens in some places but not others.

1.  It seems to work in the US.

2.  Then why did we create Canadian citizenship in 1947 and get rid of being just "British subjects" immediately following the war, and the Canadian flag came a bit later?  Answer:  nationalism.

3.  These things have been our motto for at least 30 years.  Why would we continue to rely on something for our nationalism that hasn't done nearly enough for it?  You're basically calling for the status quo.  It's not enough.  You need a shared culture, not feel-good buzzwords.  Quebec has a shared culture, therefore nationalism.  You're saying 'yay multicultarlism", which is literally the exact opposite of a shared culture.  Quebec having a different culture than the rest of Canada has been DIVISIVE, the same with aboriginals.  We need to emphasize our commonalities, not our differences.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2021, 12:54:08 am »
So if they weren't rich there would be no equalization and every province would be poorer.

Yes. Everyone knows this. So?

Offline MH

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2021, 01:11:49 pm »
1.  It seems to work in the US.

2.  Then why did we create Canadian citizenship in 1947 and get rid of being just "British subjects" immediately following the war, and the Canadian flag came a bit later?  Answer:  nationalism.

3.  These things have been our motto for at least 30 years.  Why would we continue to rely on something for our nationalism that hasn't done nearly enough for it?  You're basically calling for the status quo.  It's not enough. 

4. You need a shared culture, not feel-good buzzwords. 

5. Quebec has a shared culture, therefore nationalism. 

6. You're saying 'yay multicultarlism", which is literally the exact opposite of a shared culture. 

 

1. It was never a big thing here, even years ago.  Trudeau Sr. remarked on it, famously.
2. You asked about WW 1 & 2 - they were before 1947.  Canada really came into its own afterwards.
3. Well - valid point.  I am actually just advocating for the same ideas as we have been doing but making it resonate more, making it specific and attaching it to who we are.
4. I don't think I provided feel-good buzzwords, you are just repeating criticisms that I already responded to.
5. Well, yes, except they have one.  Also it's confusing to such places when they realize they have to let foreigners and foreign money IN.
6. You are just repeating criticisms that I already responded to.
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2021, 06:40:44 pm »
1. Centuries ?  Well, ok, but the GDP growth in the middle ages was about zero.

Okay. Has our GDP growth been outpacing Europe in the last twenty years of high immigration?
Because it looks like our GDP growth rate has been trending steadily down even as immigration has steadily risen. I do not see the EU with such a steady downward trend despite issues with some of its southern member states.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/EUU/european-union/gdp-growth-rate
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/EUU/european-union/gdp-growth-rate


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Canada can't have a long storied history like France anymore but... neither does France anymore.  If you want to get really meta about it - countries are dissolving away.

That will happen only so far before there is a vicious backlash. We saw the start of one in Europe after just a few million migrants. We saw the start of that in the US with Trump. The only reason Canada hasn't seen any is the remarkable unanimity among the political/media elites on the subject. But a wide variety of polls taken of Canadians shows their views on immigration are anything but unanimous, and hostility is rising despite efforts to suppress all talk opposed to immigration.


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If you don't think fewer immigration problem is an economic advantage, I would have to ask why not ?

Because there's no evidence it is.

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2. I think we are teaching it.

We're teaching very little history, and what we are teaching seems to emphasize and concentrate on every dark moment in our history which can be found.

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3. Me.  I personally know lots of immigrants and their kids.  The kids are Canadian, period.  If you can find an academic study or some objective examination of such things, I would honestly be MORE inclined to believe it than my anecdotal experience but that is all I have.

Even your anecdote would give me some confidence were it not for the fact you don't seem to consider that Canada has any culture or values beyond being somewhat nice and welcoming to strangers. By that standards there are hundreds of millions of Canadians around the world who have never been here.

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4. See #3 - also every party has immigrants running and/or elected as MPs.  How exactly this works out for Canadians born in India vs. South America is not clear to me.  I would imagine it's like Florida Cubans influencing elections but

The political influence Florida Cubans have exercised on elections has not been good for the United States. What makes you think the much greater influence of immigrants in Canada will be good for us?

 
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Did we have a sense of our history and was it accurate ?  I would say we have a way of life and values that are shared, more than 'history'.

The good thing about shared narratives is it doesn't matter if they're true as long as most people believe in them and it gives them a sense of pride and possession in their homeland and nation. Of course, we're not supposed to feel any possession since we're all 'settlers' and are expected to apologize for it during every public meeting

Offline kimmy

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Re: Culture Culture
« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2021, 01:36:16 am »
Can't help feeling that in the main immigration is an economic boon because you need new marks for the Ponzi scheme.

Gotta keep that demand for real estate trending upwards.

Gotta keep creating new clients for the service sector.

It's fucken fantastic for me, I'm on "Team I Got Mine" so obviously real estate prices and rents going through the stratosphere is the best possible outcome for me so why would I complain?

 -k
Masked for your safety.
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