Author Topic: Conspiracy Culture  (Read 2364 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #120 on: February 13, 2021, 06:56:47 pm »
It wasn't Hitler's either prior to 1941, however, people died of mistreatment anyway (as you said in the post to which I was responding).

My point is that if there wasn't so much media and social media coverage of the border detainees, is it that much of a stretch that many detainees would've died of malnutrition and mistreatment as well?

They were raping and sterilizing even with all the attention.  Good grief, imagine if nobody was looking.

A lot of things have been alleged but we don't really know.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/16/mass-hysterectomies-ice/
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #121 on: February 14, 2021, 11:52:12 am »
Well what is the basis, simply that people were put in camps?

The only thing that might be considered close to equating Hitler's Germany is Pol Pot's Cambodia.

Mass detention of a demonized minority without trial or recourse, based on a group identity for the furtherance of a goal of restoring national greatness?


Offline the_squid

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #122 on: February 14, 2021, 12:47:34 pm »
Mass detention of a demonized minority without trial or recourse, based on a group identity for the furtherance of a goal of restoring national greatness?

Yup.  Still not the same as Nazi death camps.   
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #123 on: February 15, 2021, 01:19:08 pm »
Yup.  Still not the same as Nazi death camps.

Good thing no one has made that comparison.

Offline wilber

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #124 on: February 15, 2021, 01:38:30 pm »
Mass detention of a demonized minority without trial or recourse, based on a group identity for the furtherance of a goal of restoring national greatness?

You mean like what we did to the Japanese in WW2?
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #125 on: February 15, 2021, 01:39:44 pm »
You mean like what we did to the Japanese in WW2?

Sure that's a valid comparison too. Do you think that helps your case here?
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2021, 01:43:30 pm »

“Canada was fighting Hitler in WWII while being exactly the same as Hitler by putting the Japanese into camps.”

That would be a fair analogy, according to some here.  And yet, while both were terrible, one was much, much worse.

Canada was very bad to the Japanese-Canadians, but they weren’t Hitler levels of bad. 

That’s the problem with saying America caging up migrant kids is the same as the Jews being put into camps by the Nazis. 

It just isn’t.   Words matter.  Bad analogies that rely on hyperbole actually wreck your argument.

Except the argument is not that the border camps are exactly the same as Nazi camps. The problem, then, is not the analogy but with people who are incapable of parsing it.



Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2021, 01:56:49 pm »
You mean like what we did to the Japanese in WW2?

They did the exact same thing to Germans in Canada in WW2.  It's weird they never talk about that.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2021, 02:09:51 pm »
You mean like what we did to the Japanese in WW2?

Consider the motives though.  One was based on an ongoing war and a perceived threat (perceived being the key word), the other was just for keeping an undesirable ethnic group out. 

In that sense detainment camps have more in common with Nazi camps than internment camps.

Offline wilber

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2021, 02:14:46 pm »
They did the exact same thing to Germans in Canada in WW2.  It's weird they never talk about that.

Only the ones considered a risk. All Germans who immigrated after 1922 were required to register. Out of the 16,000 who were registered 850 were interned.

21,000 Japanese were interned, 77% were British subjects, 60% were born in Canada. They weren't allowed to return to their old communities on the coast until 1949.

 Not even close to the same thing.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2021, 02:16:03 pm »
Consider the motives though.  One was based on an ongoing war and a perceived threat (perceived being the key word), the other was just for keeping an undesirable ethnic group out. 

In that sense detainment camps have more in common with Nazi camps than internment camps.

Racism pure and simple. We didn't do anything like that to German and Italian Canadians.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2021, 04:39:42 pm »
They did the exact same thing to Germans in Canada in WW2.  It's weird they never talk about that.

The first Canadian interned by their own government were Ukrainians in WW1. Their (forced) labour helped build our western national parks.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2021, 04:42:56 pm »
It's weird that the Nazi camps are apparently off-limits for any comparison, but Hitler himself was inspired by the Indian reservation system and Boer War civilian camps which people have no problem comparing to the present day migrant camps.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2021, 05:05:55 pm »
It's weird that the Nazi camps are apparently off-limits for any comparison, but Hitler himself was inspired by the Indian reservation system and Boer War civilian camps which people have no problem comparing to the present day migrant camps.

It’s not “off limits”.  It’s just hyperbole. 

The reservation system may have been an inspiration, but it wasn’t like Nazi gas chamber camps either.  I suppose he took our evil deeds to a whole new level that hasn’t really been matched since, except maybe in Cambodia

How many kids were affected by the “kids in cages” thing?  A million?  10 million?  Oh wait...  a few thousand.  Yeah...  Trump wasn’t very good at the whole “systematic annihilation of Latinos” or whatever he’s being accused of.  As I said...  hyperbole.


Offline wilber

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #134 on: February 15, 2021, 05:50:58 pm »
It's weird that the Nazi camps are apparently off-limits for any comparison, but Hitler himself was inspired by the Indian reservation system and Boer War civilian camps which people have no problem comparing to the present day migrant camps.

The Boer War camps were intended to deny Boer guerrilla forces support from the Boer community. The object wasn't to imprison people. The high death rate in those camps was due to disease from poor diet and sanitation, much like the Nazi camps. When news of the high death rate got out there was public outrage in Britain and a Commission was formed which resulted in the camps being put under civilian control instead of military. The death rate then dropped to less than 2%. Basically the opposite of what happened in Nazi camps.

So certainly the comparison between the ICE and Boer camps is more appropriate.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 06:18:22 pm by wilber »
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