Author Topic: Conspiracy Culture  (Read 2376 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #210 on: March 11, 2021, 09:38:18 am »
So you're not asking for quotas and believe people should be hired on merit alone?

Not really because the concept of merit is itself flawed. It assumes everyone starts at the same place and the playing field is level for everyone. That's not the case.

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The interviewer was basically criticizing Seinfeld for not having more female comedians on his show.  Is it Seinfeld's problem that there are more successful male comedians in the industry who are funny, in his assessment, than women?  Does that make him sexist?  Why should we trust some interviewers' insinuation that there's some kind of sexist imbalance on the show, or in the industry?  Why should we trust anyone making claims if they're unable to back up their claims with evidence?

Because the quantitative evidence you're asking for is extremely difficult to come by, but that in itself doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. We do have an awful lot of anecdotal evidence though and that's telling.

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As I've shown with basketball players and teachers, a disparity in gender or race isn't sufficient on its own to show there's racial or gender bias occurring in hiring, and yet people do it constantly.

And i've shown why those are bad analogies.

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We should be looking at social problems like this like social scientists, based on evidence, not making claims pulled out of our butts and then claiming some employer is sexist, racist, or whatever simply because of anecdotes and gender/race disparities, and then pressuring them to change hiring practices because things *appear* to some people to be unfair when there's little to no evidence that it actually is or not.

See above.

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I agree.  Is it possible that there are more men who are good comedians than women?  If one disagrees with that statement, i think they'd need evidence it's wrong.

No, you need to provide evidence it's right.

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If more men graduated university than women for these exact same reasons you propose, some people would claim it is due to sexism, just as they do in STEM fields.  And they would bring forward this claim without any real evidence.  It sounds like people are pulling claims out of their rear end.  Nobody is going to say that more women graduate due to sexism.  Why?  Because there's no evidence to back up that claim.  Is it possible in our society we're sometimes reaching conclusion like this before actually investigating whether a claim is true or not? I find that likely.

Asking for "evidence" over and over again without providing any sense of what kind of evidence would be acceptable isn't really showing a serious commitment to understanding the problem, it's just JAQing off.

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I'm not sure.  Something that can be verified?  One study was conducted where the exact same resumes were sent to many employers and they just changed the names on them.  The resumes with POC sounding names got more callbacks for interviews than the white sounding names.  This is an effective study that shows racial bias was a factor in hiring because all variables were controlled for except for the ethnicity of the candidates names.

Not every social phenomenon can be reproduced in a lab, but yes they can try. There was a study that had men and women write cartoon captions and subjects rate them. In the anonymous sample, there was no difference, but in the sample where the names of the authours were included, the men were rated higher. Things like that help, but overall, I think it's a challenge to show where stereotypes and implicit bias end and genuine differences in ability begin.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 09:44:17 am by Black Dog »