Author Topic: Cancel Culture Culture  (Read 1367 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2021, 05:24:51 pm »
Yes? Contrary to the article in the OP, it's actually not that hard to find good art made by people who aren't creeps!

Very lucky for you to never have to deal with a moral quandry. 

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2021, 07:00:40 pm »
Very lucky for you to never have to deal with a moral quandry.

It's an interesting question though.  What does an artist have to do?  I never liked Woody Allen much anyway, so it's no example for me.  But what if I found out Neil Young was a monster?  What would it do to "Like a Hurricane"?  Not much, I think.

But there was a musician a few years back who went to jail for raping babies.  I never heard his music, but if I had, and I had liked it, would I still?  I don't know.

I quite like Hitler's paintings.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline MH

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2021, 08:13:08 pm »
It's an interesting question though.  What does an artist have to do?  I never liked Woody Allen much anyway, so it's no example for me.  But what if I found out Neil Young was a monster?  What would it do to "Like a Hurricane"?  Not much, I think.

But there was a musician a few years back who went to jail for raping babies.  I never heard his music, but if I had, and I had liked it, would I still?  I don't know.

I quite like Hitler's paintings.

Well... the answer is... for me... "I don't know"

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2021, 10:48:54 pm »
I'm fine with a consumer not wanting to support someone financially if they're a douche.  But even people who do bad things are still human beings, and art is an expression of someone's humanity, so I think you can choose to not support them financially while still enjoying their art if you happen to witness it.  It's acceptable for people to be punished for their actions but they shouldn't be hated and written off as human beings.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2021, 01:14:19 pm »
Cancel culture: the attitude that if someone is saying stuff that offends us, we need to find some way to shut them up.

The name "cancel culture" is new, but cancel culture isn't new at all. It's very old, and for most of history has been the domain of conservatives and reactionaries, not progressives.


One recent victim of cancel culture: Alex Jones.  Progressives don't mention him as a victim of cancel culture, because they say cancel culture isn't real.  And conservatives don't mention Jones as a victim of cancel culture, because if they did it would make people say "maybe cancel culture isn't so bad!"  But clearly, Alex Jones has been "cancelled", and it's hard to see any downside to that.  Alex Jones had nothing worthwhile to offer.  His continued presence in the realm of ideas made society objectively worse.   Maybe cancel culture can be good after all.

 -k
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2021, 01:28:02 pm »
Cancel culture: the attitude that if someone is saying stuff that offends us, we need to find some way to shut them up.

The name "cancel culture" is new, but cancel culture isn't new at all. It's very old, and for most of history has been the domain of conservatives and reactionaries, not progressives.


One recent victim of cancel culture: Alex Jones.  Progressives don't mention him as a victim of cancel culture, because they say cancel culture isn't real.  And conservatives don't mention Jones as a victim of cancel culture, because if they did it would make people say "maybe cancel culture isn't so bad!"  But clearly, Alex Jones has been "cancelled", and it's hard to see any downside to that.  Alex Jones had nothing worthwhile to offer.  His continued presence in the realm of ideas made society objectively worse.   Maybe cancel culture can be good after all.

 -k

It is good to cancel people with extremist and dangerous views who are hurting people. 

The problem becomes when the SJWs (using an example from the left...  my peeps, supposedly) want to cancel anyone who disagrees with them, even when those people have moderate, generally mainstream views that are not harmful.  They forget people are allowed to disagree.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2021, 05:41:18 pm »
One recent victim of cancel culture: Alex Jones.  Progressives don't mention him as a victim of cancel culture, because they say cancel culture isn't real.  And conservatives don't mention Jones as a victim of cancel culture, because if they did it would make people say "maybe cancel culture isn't so bad!"  But clearly, Alex Jones has been "cancelled", and it's hard to see any downside to that.  Alex Jones had nothing worthwhile to offer.  His continued presence in the realm of ideas made society objectively worse.   Maybe cancel culture can be good after all.

Alex Jones is a really stupid human being.  The sad thing is he seems like a lot of these uneducated right-leaning Americans.

The American flag should have Jones' face on it.  Cancel America?
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2021, 05:47:28 pm »
It is good to cancel people with extremist and dangerous views who are hurting people. 

The problem becomes when the SJWs (using an example from the left...  my peeps, supposedly) want to cancel anyone who disagrees with them, even when those people have moderate, generally mainstream views that are not harmful.  They forget people are allowed to disagree.

Private companies don't have an obligation to broadcast or support somebody's views/behaviour.  We can all agree or disagree on whether a certain person should be cancelled, but not on the right of companies to cancel them.  I have faith that over time capitalism will tell companies if what they're doing is right or not, so in a way society is self-regulating.

I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2021, 09:24:41 am »
Shaming people for making unwanted sexual advances seems discriminatory to the unattractive.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2021, 11:56:34 am »
It is good to cancel people with extremist and dangerous views who are hurting people. 

The problem becomes when the SJWs (using an example from the left...  my peeps, supposedly) want to cancel anyone who disagrees with them, even when those people have moderate, generally mainstream views that are not harmful.  They forget people are allowed to disagree.

Can you cite any examples of this phenomenon?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2021, 08:31:35 am »
If a publisher decides to stop producing books with racist stereotypes, well sir, you got a cancel culture.

Government passes laws to criminalize protests and protect drivers who run into crowds? No big deal.


Offline cybercoma

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2021, 08:55:22 am »
Can you cite any examples of this phenomenon?
Has anyone checked their local Italian restaurant to see if there's been a special on calamari? Our squid has gone missing.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2021, 02:55:02 pm »
If a publisher decides to stop producing books with racist stereotypes, well sir, you got a cancel culture.

Government passes laws to criminalize protests and protect drivers who run into crowds? No big deal.

I think it's good to convict people who break the law, including rioters/vandals, but I don't know why you'd need new laws about it.  Smashing the window of a business, stealing its contents, and then setting it on fire are already illegal acts not needing new legislation.  Punishing people who do these crimes further by denying access to jobs, student loans etc is just weird and cruel, and isn't going to prevent anything.

The GOP are dumb weirdos.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2021, 03:39:15 pm »
There's a woman named Jessica Pin. As a young woman she was permanently harmed during a cosmetic labiaplasty procedure, and she has made it her mission to advocate for better medical literacy about female sexual anatomy.  A few weeks ago she got into trouble on Twitter with the wokies.  They were angry at her for using "female anatomy" to refer to the clitoris and labia minora.  (These are the same kind of people who get mad if you refer to FGM as FGM, and pretty much the same people who said "I Stand With People In Poland!" in regard to Poland's anti-abortion laws.)  So, the wokies started bombarding her with "eat glass, transphobe!", "educate yourself", "drink bleach, TERF!" and so on, even though she had never been part of the "gender wars" and didn't even know what TERF means.  Referring to female anatomy as female is enough to make you a TERF nowadays.  The wokies also bombarded a couple of podcasts that she had been schedule to speak on with accusations of transphobia, and she was dropped.

I'm sure that a small-time figure being dropped from a couple of minor podcasts is not going to keep anybody up at night, but I think it illustrates the problem.   Anybody who isn't a complete moron can recognize that the wokies attacking Ms Pin are deranged fanatical imbeciles, but the problem isn't whether they're right or wrong, it's that the accusation exists.  If you're the operator of one of those podcasts, the danger to you is that the accusation of transphobia is the only thing that anybody hears about. Anybody who bothered to look into the matter would realize that it was a ridiculous controversy, but for most people all they would see is the surface and what you see on the surface is a bunch of reviews accusing them of "hosting a known transphobe".

Efforts to "cancel" JK Rowling or Joe Rogan are doomed to fail because they're big enough that they can simply ignore whatever "consequences" the wokies try to inflict on them. But Jessica Pin and the small-time podcasts she was dropped from aren't in the same position.

 -k
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Offline MH

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Re: Cancel Culture Culture
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2021, 04:03:45 pm »
  A few weeks ago she got into trouble on Twitter with the wokies. 

 

Your problem is that you're trying to criticize a mob.  It's fine to do that but they're teflon.

Have you heard of GLAAD and their campaign against Jesse Singal ?

That is an organization, and I'm surprised you haven't said anything about that situation.