Author Topic: Bargain Culture  (Read 2009 times)

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Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2017, 04:17:57 pm »
We’re lifting them out of poverty /s

Their unelected undemocratic government is.  And our government counts on them to provide our poor with cheap goods.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2017, 01:31:23 am »
No the only downside is it might explode and kill you, or set your house on fire or poison you...

Most of the consumer gadgets we buy are Chinese-made anyway.  You think somebody slapping a US brand-name on a product transforms it from a potential bomb into a safe and reliable product?  Somebody slapping a US brand-name on a product transforms it from a $2 gadget to a $20 gadget. That's the real difference.

I bought a couple of folding knives through GearBest... they're not just knock-offs of Kershaw knives, they literally are Kershaw knives.  They're made from the exact same parts.  There is no doubt in my mind they came out of the same factory, they probably went out the back door while the Kershaw factory rep was on lunch break.   These retail for about $40 each but I got them for $7 apiece.   So... why pay more?

Am I supposed to feel bad for putting US factory workers out of work by buying Chinese?  Well, actually Kershaw is the ones who put the US factory workers out of work when they decided to offshore their production.   Am I supposed to feel bad that Kershaw didn't get to collect a $33 mark up on a $7 product?   Truthfully I don't feel that bad. Maybe Kershaw's shareholders, or shareholders of whatever global conglomerate owns Kershaw will feel worse than I do.

FREE TRADE, y'all!  It works for Kershaw, because they get to slap a $33 markup on a $7 product. Why not make free trade work for me, Kimmy, law-abiding citizen?

If a manufacturer like Kershaw can benefit from trade by shopping around the world for cheaper labor, why shouldn't someone like me likewise benefit by shopping for cheaper products?   It seems only fair.   The premise that big corporations should be able to axe jobs in North America to take advantage of lower production costs elsewhere while North American consumers should continue paying the full Made In North America price sucks.

What also sucks is the Canada "de minimus" import threshold. If our government really believed free trade was good for Canada, they'd let Canadian consumers participate.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2017, 01:45:42 am »
Buying cheap goods made by foreign slave labour with money most of you most likely don't have.

I know that some of you Ron Paul types think that unless you're holding gold bars in your own two hands you don't actually have any money.  But my finances are just fine.

We’re lifting them out of poverty /s

Look, man, just about everything is being made in China anyway.  The question is merely whether some Canadian or American corporation gets to charge a gigantic mark-up on behalf of its shareholders or whether I can buy direct.   That little Chinese orphan will earn the same wage either way.

I bought an allegedly hand-made Pakistani Bowie knife last month. Apparently I buy a lot of knives. Generic wheat squares, sensible shoes, Subarus, and knifes.  I digress.   I don't know the circumstances of the guy who made that knife.   Maybe he's in a factory earning subsistence wages. Maybe he's a craftsman who will be able to buy lentils for his family for a whole month because I bought his product.  I don't know which. Maybe it's somewhere in between.   But personally, I don't imagine that I made that guy's life worse by buying his work.

 -k
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Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2017, 05:22:10 am »
Even better... you are now engaging with someone from the other side of the world, albeit through many proxies.  That means that you are connected, and now that bond will be harder to break.  While it's not true that trade prevents war, it does make it harder.  The US could never attack Canada because they would have to bomb all their own factories and oil facilities.

One New World Order... here it comes...

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2017, 11:30:19 am »
Most of the consumer gadgets we buy are Chinese-made anyway.  You think somebody slapping a US brand-name on a product transforms it from a potential bomb into a safe and reliable product?  Somebody slapping a US brand-name on a product transforms it from a $2 gadget to a $20 gadget. That's the real difference.

Yes, it does make a difference. Western manufacturers need to worry about both their reputations and lawsuits. That means they have to check out where their products are made and keep a wary eye on what's going into them lest their Chinese partners decide to make substitutes. Likewise stuff that comes over through the normal means and winds up in regular retail outlets has to be checked out by those retail outlets. At least the bigger ones. The Bay does NOT want to find out through news stories that its pajamas burst into flames if they go anywhere near a flame, Loblaws doesn't want to discover that the toothpaste they're selling has ground up body parts or whatever in it. They're not going to sell **** that comes from some unknown Chinese company. Or any company they don't have some degree of confidence in. The corruption over there is almost beyond belief. Any company that can get away with something WILL. It's not like, in the normal course of business they have to worry about the law. Especially with stuff they export. They're all paying off their local bureaucrats anyway.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:32:08 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2017, 10:22:36 pm »
Yes, it does make a difference. Western manufacturers need to worry about both their reputations and lawsuits. That means they have to check out where their products are made and keep a wary eye on what's going into them lest their Chinese partners decide to make substitutes.

Fairly confident that my pocket knives and little electronics gadgets aren't going to burn the house down.  If we were talking about stuff that runs off 120V AC power, I'd take the risk seriously.  Or something with a big lithium battery pack, for that matter, I would be skeptical about buying a mystery-brand product.

And, some of these Chinese brands do have a reputation to uphold.  Xiaomi, for example, is the 5th largest cell-phone maker in the world.  You can get a hi-spec Xiaomi phone for a lot less than a comparable Samsung, and it won't explode.  I haven't tried one of their phones yet, but I have their power bank, and it's top notch.  I won't be surprised when some US brand starts buying them and selling them domestically for a 400% mark-up.

I do know a few people who have bought extremely cheap smartphones through GearBest, and bought pay-as-you-go minutes from Telus. $50 for a phone and $100 for a whole year of talk and test.  If you're on a tight budget, that's a heck of a lot better than getting a "free phone" on a plan that costs $40+ every month.

Last year I bought a GoPro imitator made by another Chinese cell-phone company, Elephone. It works great. It cost me $65.  This year Newegg is selling the same camera in Canada for $160. Comparable GoPro? $300+ I believe.

Likewise stuff that comes over through the normal means and winds up in regular retail outlets has to be checked out by those retail outlets. At least the bigger ones. The Bay does NOT want to find out through news stories that its pajamas burst into flames if they go anywhere near a flame, Loblaws doesn't want to discover that the toothpaste they're selling has ground up body parts or whatever in it. They're not going to sell **** that comes from some unknown Chinese company. Or any company they don't have some degree of confidence in.

Didn't Loblaws get caught for almost exactly that not long ago?  Slapping their "Joe Fresh" label on stuff that turns out to have been made by slave laborers in Bangladesh? And we only found out about it because the factory burned down, killing hundreds of workers? All those charred corpses holding partially finished Joe Fresh sweaters and jeans? It sounds like Loblaw's didn't actually know much about the circumstances under which their "Joe Fresh" brand gets made after all.

I mean, if I'm going to be sold stuff made by slaves who are going to perish in burning buildings anyway, I might as well not pay an 800% mark-up, right?


The corruption over there is almost beyond belief. Any company that can get away with something WILL. It's not like, in the normal course of business they have to worry about the law. Especially with stuff they export. They're all paying off their local bureaucrats anyway.

I wouldn't trust their food. I wouldn't trust off-brand dollar store light bulbs or anything else that runs off AC power.  But stuff like small electronics and pocket knives and other little gadgets, I have no worries.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2017, 12:02:29 am »
Even better... you are now engaging with someone from the other side of the world, albeit through many proxies.  That means that you are connected, and now that bond will be harder to break.  While it's not true that trade prevents war, it does make it harder.  The US could never attack Canada because they would have to bomb all their own factories and oil facilities.

Picturing how this might go.

somewhere in Lahore...


knock-knock. knock-knock-knock.


"Allo! Who is there?"

"This is Walid!  Is this Al-Pakka world headquarters?"

"Yes it is, friend! How may we help?"

"I come to ask that you not blow up Kimmy."

"hmmm.....  no can-do.  It says here that Kimmy is haram. We have to blow up Kimmy for five different reasons.  Sorry, Walid."

"But Kimmy is good customer! She buy the Bowie knife, she pay the money, next month I hoping to sell Kimmy the Viking axe!"

"Sorry, my friend, but the rules are the rules."

"My children need to eat!  I can't have you blowing up my customers!"

"I tell you what, Walid, since you are good friend, I will put in the good word with the boss. Maybe we can move Kimmy to back of list. Maybe she will buy the axe before we blow her up."

"If that is the best you can do, then that is all I can ask.  Blessings be upon you, friend."

"And you, Walid!"

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2017, 05:47:25 am »
Yes, that's how it goes.

Actually, it's more like... over time the people who own and run factories start dealing more with international trade and they get more power than the factions that want to pull back from interacting with the world.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2017, 11:38:05 am »
Yes, that's how it goes.

Actually, it's more like... over time the people who own and run factories start dealing more with international trade and they get more power than the factions that want to pull back from interacting with the world.

How's that working out for China?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2017, 08:49:19 am »
Pretty well.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2017, 11:48:35 am »
Pretty well.

In fact, it's not working at all. Nobody has any more power. If anything, the Communist Party has been getting more autocratic and cracking down on the slightest complaints or disagreement with government policy. Information control is tighter than anywhere outside North Korea.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2017, 11:55:28 am »
China has a middle class, they are joining Global climate and trade agreements, they are allowing foreign businesses to invade them.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2017, 11:30:20 am »
China has a middle class, they are joining Global climate and trade agreements, they are allowing foreign businesses to invade them.

Oh give me a break. I read a thing yesterday that said if the money in China was actually equalized among its people they'd be about as rich as Guyana. What you have are some incredibly rich people - all of whom have close ties to the Communist party, and some skilled elites who are enjoying a semi-western style lifestyle. The mass of Chinese however, are dirt poor. And their 'middle class' has no power and no ability to influence anything. Even their rich can be cut off at the knees the moment the party doesn't like what they're doing.

China has violated every trade agreement they've ever made. They cheat in a way western nations wouldn't imagine doing. We signed an agreement with China not to spy on each other. Do you think for a single second that caused the Chinese to do anything but laugh hysterically? Their spies are all over Canada and they continue to try to hack into every governmental, military and corporate system around according to the previous head of CSIS. Not to mention pouring money into the pockets of the Liberal party through every means possible to buy influence.

They also do not have an open market of any sort. Allow foreign businesses to invade them? You really are a comedian. Those foreign businesses are tightly restricted in what moneys they can withdraw, in how they act, and what they say. And Chinese spies are embedded in every one of them. China will be selling replicas of Boeing's aircraft in a few years, with every part down to the finest detail exactly the same as what Boeing is building there.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2017, 03:58:38 pm »
Oh give me a break. I read a thing yesterday that said if the money in China was actually equalized among its people they'd be about as rich as Guyana. What you have are some incredibly rich people - all of whom have close ties to the Communist party, and some skilled elites who are enjoying a semi-western style lifestyle.

That sounds exactly like the western world.
 
 

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bargain Culture
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 11:52:44 am »
That sounds exactly like the western world.

No, it actually doesn't. Almost half the population of China lives on less than $4 a day.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:56:57 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum