Author Topic: Conspiracy Culture  (Read 3981 times)

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #240 on: March 10, 2022, 09:15:36 am »
Re: Why no early mask mandate...
Quote
Back in early 2020, they didn't know that much about the disease. Plus, there were concerns about the supply of surgical and N95 masks and wanted to ensure there were enough for medical use. That's why in the very early stages they didn't recommend wearing them.
What i bolded is total nonsense.
Except of course it is not.

From: https://www.wired.com/story/how-masks-went-from-dont-wear-to-must-have/
In the early days of the pandemic, the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and even WIRED warned people against using masks. They wouldn’t protect people against getting the disease, all those organizations said, and supplies looked short for the personal protective equipment that health care workers were going to need when the pandemic got bad....
...
Most of my earlier recommendations were focused on people who were sick, because [we thought] if you wear the mask, the greatest benefit is for someone who’s sick,” says Nahid Bhadelia, head of the special pathogens unit of the National Emerging Infectious Disease Laboratories at Boston University...As the weeks went by, evidence began to accumulate that the virus also spreads through exhalations from infectious people—whether or not they feel or know they are sick....If it were true, it would flip the standard advice.


So hindsight is 20/20, but at the beginning the evidence was not as clear.

Admittedly there were some specialists with differing opinions at the start (some who recommended mask wearing right from the beginning). But, sometimes science gets things wrong and needs a little time to correct itself.
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  What is not bolded is the true reason.  Our gov was sending masks to China
Yes, the government did send a shipment of masks and other equipment to china. But that donation should be put into context...

From: https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/04/13/document-reveals-why-canada-sent-protective-equipment-to-china-as-covid-19-threat-was-growing.html
Canada’s health minister gave the approval to donating personal protective equipment from the national emergency stockpile that was on the verge of expiry to China...At the time, Canada had only four confirmed cases of COVID-19, while China had more than 14,000 cases...


So a donation of almost-expired equipment to a country that was dealing with a major outbreak, at a time when we didn't know just how much the disease would impact us. Was it a bad decision to donate equipment to China? In hindsight, maybe. But given our previous experience with SARS, it probably would have seemed like a smart decision at the time.... control the outbreak in China before it spills over into Canada.

Of course, even if we DIDN'T donate masks/etc. to china, we still would have had supply problems. (Remember back in 2020, the U.S. was confiscating shipments of masks to Canada.) So no, the chinese donation was not the main cause of the supply issues.
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and procuring masks for our healthcare workers while telling us we didn't need them.  Why would certain people need them but not us?
Because health care workers would have been at a higher risk for both catching and transmitting the virus than non-healthcare workers?

If a person gets sick, they go to the hospital, They usually don't go to the supermarket. A doctor/nurse might encounter dozens/hundreds of patients in a day, and a higher portion of them will be sick with things like covid. It makes sense that you would want to avoid them becoming super-spreaders.

Ideally everyone would mask-up. But when you have limited supplies, it makes sense to supply those who could potentially cause the most spread before othres. 

Quote
Covid is still a relatively new disease. Vaccines are safe and effective, but we're still learning about how well the protect long-term. Getting double vaxed does offer protection... a booster simply offers MORE protection.
Yes this is common knowledge.[/quote]
Then why did you ask about boosters before if you already knew the answer?
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And i'm asking why hospitals were getting rammed 2 months ago but now we can take off masks?  I'm not asking for your speculation, I'm asking for the government's scientific evidence that they're using as their reasoning for this policy.
Ummm... first of all, you can easily find statistics showing that case numbers and hospitalizations have decreased over the past few weeks. Not really sure what more evidence you need.

Secondly, as I suggested, the government's decision may not be based strictly on scientific evidence.

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Offline MH

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #241 on: June 21, 2022, 05:44:39 am »
CBC News: Criminal probe into KPMG offshore tax scheme ends in secrecy.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kpmg-investigation-offshore-scheme-1.6494913

Let's see if the Conspiracy folks have evolved to the point of seizing on THIS story.

As Chomsky says... Secret conspiracies aren't necessary because they do things in plain sight without consequence.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #242 on: June 21, 2022, 11:09:25 am »
What i bolded is total nonsense.
Except of course it is not.

From: https://www.wired.com/story/how-masks-went-from-dont-wear-to-must-have/
In the early days of the pandemic, the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and even WIRED warned people against using masks. They wouldn’t protect people against getting the disease, all those organizations said, and supplies looked short for the personal protective equipment that health care workers were going to need when the pandemic got bad....
...
Most of my earlier recommendations were focused on people who were sick, because [we thought] if you wear the mask, the greatest benefit is for someone who’s sick,” says Nahid Bhadelia, head of the special pathogens unit of the National Emerging Infectious Disease Laboratories at Boston University...As the weeks went by, evidence began to accumulate that the virus also spreads through exhalations from infectious people—whether or not they feel or know they are sick....If it were true, it would flip the standard advice.


So hindsight is 20/20, but at the beginning the evidence was not as clear.

Admittedly there were some specialists with differing opinions at the start (some who recommended mask wearing right from the beginning). But, sometimes science gets things wrong and needs a little time to correct itself.Yes, the government did send a shipment of masks and other equipment to china. But that donation should be put into context...

From: https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/04/13/document-reveals-why-canada-sent-protective-equipment-to-china-as-covid-19-threat-was-growing.html
Canada’s health minister gave the approval to donating personal protective equipment from the national emergency stockpile that was on the verge of expiry to China...At the time, Canada had only four confirmed cases of COVID-19, while China had more than 14,000 cases...


So a donation of almost-expired equipment to a country that was dealing with a major outbreak, at a time when we didn't know just how much the disease would impact us. Was it a bad decision to donate equipment to China? In hindsight, maybe. But given our previous experience with SARS, it probably would have seemed like a smart decision at the time.... control the outbreak in China before it spills over into Canada.

Of course, even if we DIDN'T donate masks/etc. to china, we still would have had supply problems. (Remember back in 2020, the U.S. was confiscating shipments of masks to Canada.) So no, the chinese donation was not the main cause of the supply issues. Because health care workers would have been at a higher risk for both catching and transmitting the virus than non-healthcare workers?

If a person gets sick, they go to the hospital, They usually don't go to the supermarket. A doctor/nurse might encounter dozens/hundreds of patients in a day, and a higher portion of them will be sick with things like covid. It makes sense that you would want to avoid them becoming super-spreaders.

Ideally everyone would mask-up. But when you have limited supplies, it makes sense to supply those who could potentially cause the most spread before othres. 
Yes this is common knowledge.
Then why did you ask about boosters before if you already knew the answer?Ummm... first of all, you can easily find statistics showing that case numbers and hospitalizations have decreased over the past few weeks. Not really sure what more evidence you need.

Secondly, as I suggested, the government's decision may not be based strictly on scientific evidence.

You're missing the point.  Early in the pandemic the government was procuring masks for our healthcare workers and sending them to China to stop the spread there while at the same time telling Canadians that masks don't work.  They didn't say "we don't know, more data needed" or "we're not sure so wear masks anyways".

If they thought masks didn't work they wouldn't have had healthcare workers use them or have sent them to China to help them out to stop the spread.  So it's pretty obvious that they were very likely lying to the public on purpose so there wasn't a run on masks that meant a lack of them for healthcare workers etc.  Either that or they are totally incompetent in their messaging.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #243 on: June 21, 2022, 11:39:58 am »
Uh...so? Who cares?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #244 on: June 21, 2022, 11:46:20 am »
You're missing the point.  Early in the pandemic the government was procuring masks for our healthcare workers and sending them to China to stop the spread there while at the same time telling Canadians that masks don't work.  They didn't say "we don't know, more data needed" or "we're not sure so wear masks anyways".

If they thought masks didn't work they wouldn't have had healthcare workers use them or have sent them to China to help them out to stop the spread.  So it's pretty obvious that they were very likely lying to the public on purpose so there wasn't a run on masks that meant a lack of them for healthcare workers etc.  Either that or they are totally incompetent in their messaging.

Ding ding ding

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #245 on: June 21, 2022, 02:22:13 pm »
Uh...so? Who cares?

People who don't want to get sick or die because the government told them terrible advice and/or lied to them?
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Conspiracy Culture
« Reply #246 on: June 21, 2022, 03:16:47 pm »
People who don't want to get sick or die because the government told them terrible advice and/or lied to them?
Attempting to prevent a run on masks would be irresponsible?
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