Author Topic: Anti-woke culture  (Read 6721 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #240 on: January 26, 2023, 10:09:27 pm »
I have arrived at a framework wherein I can tolerate intolerance under the umbrella of tolerance.

I was going to explain what that meant, but I should pause for people to make fun of me here.

And by "people" I mean all of you. 

Why?  This seems like a perfectly reasonable view.  I think we should tolerate different viewpoints.  Actions I guess are different, it depends on their impact.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #241 on: January 26, 2023, 11:01:13 pm »
Why?  This seems like a perfectly reasonable view.  I think we should tolerate different viewpoints.  Actions I guess are different, it depends on their impact.

So we should tolerate virulent racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, misogyny etc as long as no one is taking actions?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #242 on: January 26, 2023, 11:47:00 pm »
So we should tolerate virulent racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, misogyny etc as long as no one is taking actions?

The most extreme hateful views, especially going after groups then no.  Harassment and threats and clearly illegal stuff, no.  Most everything else whatevs.

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #243 on: January 27, 2023, 08:39:51 am »
1.  I think we should tolerate different viewpoints.   

1.  Not in an unqualified way, no.  That's madness.  You let anybody say anything anywhere ?  No.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #244 on: January 27, 2023, 08:43:58 am »
An example.

Once at Burning Man, a witnessed two nice couples having a conversation, mid-day, with drinks, in a nice and large shaded tent area.

It went something like this:

"Too bad Briana and Dan couldn't make it this year."
"Well, it was for good reasons"
"Really ?"
"Yeah - Briana had a baby in July !"

Now at this point - a fifth individual, whom I knew, but the conversants did not, jumped into the circle.  And he was a large crazy wild-eyed looking man, and indeed was off his meds and wearing only a tutu with a horrible layer of dirty grime on him.

"HER **** WON'T WORK PROPERLY FOR A LONG TIME THEN !!!" he screamed.

Question: should his speech be tolerated ?


Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #245 on: January 27, 2023, 09:35:57 am »
The most extreme hateful views, especially going after groups then no.  Harassment and threats and clearly illegal stuff, no.  Most everything else whatevs.

So clearly there's a line where intolerance should not be tolerated. Thing is, everyone is going to draw that line in a different spot, so then what?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #246 on: January 27, 2023, 09:39:10 am »
An example.

Once at Burning Man, a witnessed two nice couples having a conversation, mid-day, with drinks, in a nice and large shaded tent area.

It went something like this:

"Too bad Briana and Dan couldn't make it this year."
"Well, it was for good reasons"
"Really ?"
"Yeah - Briana had a baby in July !"

Now at this point - a fifth individual, whom I knew, but the conversants did not, jumped into the circle.  And he was a large crazy wild-eyed looking man, and indeed was off his meds and wearing only a tutu with a horrible layer of dirty grime on him.

"HER **** WON'T WORK PROPERLY FOR A LONG TIME THEN !!!" he screamed.

Question: should his speech be tolerated ?

Depends what you mean by "tolerate".  Their comment was to my tastes rude and socially inappropriate.  However, they are free to say it and you're free to say its rude.  They don't say much different on South Park.

I'm more talking about viewpoints rather than emotional hate, crudeness etc.  Tolerating all viewpoints vs tolerating all speech seems different
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #247 on: January 27, 2023, 09:43:37 am »
Depends what you mean by "tolerate".  Their comment was to my tastes rude and socially inappropriate.  However, they are free to say it and you're free to say its rude.  They don't say much different on South Park.

I'm more talking about viewpoints rather than emotional hate, crudeness etc.  Tolerating all viewpoints vs tolerating all speech seems different

So define what you mean by "tolerate."
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 11:18:33 am by Black Dog »

Offline Moonbox

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #248 on: January 27, 2023, 01:56:00 pm »
Depends what you mean by "tolerate".  Their comment was to my tastes rude and socially inappropriate.  However, they are free to say it and you're free to say its rude.  They don't say much different on South Park.

They're free to say it, and we're free to ostracize them and marginalize them if we find it necessary. 

South Park is satire and meant to be funny and irreverant,

I'm more talking about viewpoints rather than emotional hate, crudeness etc.  Tolerating all viewpoints vs tolerating all speech seems different

I don't think there's much distinguishing one from the other. 
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #249 on: January 27, 2023, 06:18:46 pm »
1.  Not in an unqualified way, no.  That's madness.  You let anybody say anything anywhere ?  No.

So then what did you mean by tolerate intolerance?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #250 on: January 27, 2023, 06:41:19 pm »
So define what you mean by "tolerate."

Well i can think of 2 main definitions of "tolerate":

1.  Find the words socially acceptable to not socially reprimand the speaker (tell them they are a jerk, or not talking to the person anymore etc.  ie: what people do on this forum)

2.  Not taking coercive actions to silence the speech (ie: banning the person on whatever platform they speak the words, government fines, firing them from their jobs etc, ie what moderators do on MLW forum).

#2 is much more serious than #1 obviously.  My guess is MH is talking about #2 mostly.  I think #1 is fair game I guess, and #2 should err on the side of free speech.  For example, this forum has essentially no rules and the sky hasn't fallen.  Spam is deleted, but that's not really "a viewpoint" its just spam that clogs up the actual expression of viewpoints.  We are all free to criticize, ignore, or engage with whatever we want because we're adults and we don't have to use a club of coercion if our feelings are hurt.   Unless you're a man-baby like squid.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 06:44:33 pm by Queefer Sutherland »
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #251 on: January 27, 2023, 06:52:34 pm »
So then what did you mean by tolerate intolerance?

There's a period of transition when new mores are adopted, during which you have to let some things go.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #252 on: February 06, 2023, 10:59:04 am »
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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #253 on: February 11, 2023, 08:21:26 pm »
The key element of social control is the strategy of distraction that is to divert public attention from important issues & changes decided by political/economic elites, through the technique of flood or flooding continuous distractions of insignificant information.
~Noam Chomsky
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #254 on: February 11, 2023, 08:56:44 pm »
Great point.  See anything related to Trump and January 6th as examples.

Jan 6 seemed pretty important.  A POTUS undermining elections and the storming of capital buildings trying to stop election results and all.

Now 2016 to before the 2020 election period was sure filled with a whole lot of BS on the news though.  Wouldn't call that purposeful social control though, just ratings and clickbait angertainment (trademark MH).
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