Author Topic: Anti-woke culture  (Read 6792 times)

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Offline After 9 years of Trudeau Shady

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #150 on: January 17, 2023, 02:31:08 pm »
You don't need to have an explicit policy and rule for everything.  Any professional body or designation has (or should have) a purposely vague conduct section for this sort of thing.  I've never seen a dress code that covered comic-sized prosthetic breasts, have you? 

This is the sort of thing that even the Teacher's College should have waded into, if they want to have any sort of credibility on these issues.  I generally fall in with the "woke" side of these debates, but when we can't even take confident action with the truly preposterous, we light a beacon for the dumdums rally around and rage against.  This whole thing was stupid.  We make a laughingstock of ourselves bumbling around over things like this.   
The problem is, that because conservatives oppose it, lemmings in this forum have to reflexively support it.  It's a team sport to them, even if it means supporting the dumbest, most illogical thing ever.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #151 on: January 17, 2023, 02:34:34 pm »
You don't need to have an explicit policy and rule for everything.  Any professional body or designation has (or should have) a purposely vague conduct section for this sort of thing.  I've never seen a dress code that covered comic-sized prosthetic breasts, have you? 

It doesn't seem like they had any sort of appropriate and professional standards of dress for staff beforehand. Conduct likely wouldn't capture it. If it did, the lawyers probably would have told them so.

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This is the sort of thing that even the Teacher's College should have waded into, if they want to have any sort of credibility on these issues.  I generally fall in with the "woke" side of these debates, but when we can't even take confident action with the truly preposterous, we light a beacon for the dumdums rally around and rage against.  This whole thing was stupid.  We make a laughingstock of ourselves bumbling around over things like this.

Is the idea that there should be zero friction, testing of boundaries, negotiation and yes, bumbling, around stuff like this?


Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #152 on: January 17, 2023, 02:35:27 pm »
The problem is, that because conservatives oppose it, lemmings in this forum have to reflexively support it.  It's a team sport to them, even if it means supporting the dumbest, most illogical thing ever.

Please show where anyone has supported this, you ridiculous cumstain.

Offline Moonbox

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #153 on: January 17, 2023, 02:46:28 pm »
It doesn't seem like they had any sort of appropriate and professional standards of dress for staff beforehand. Conduct likely wouldn't capture it. If it did, the lawyers probably would have told them so.

You can't have rules for everything.  No dress code in existence would have covered this, except maybe the expectation that he wear a bra.  Our legal system and even our Charter is full of areas of interpretation and caveats to cover stupidity like this. 

Is the idea that there should be zero friction, testing of boundaries, negotiation and yes, bumbling, around stuff like this?

Testing of boundaries, sure, but not intentionally making a mockery of them.  This person was either intentionally trolling, or he's mentally unstable.  No reasonable person would have assumed that comic-sized prosthetic breasts were appropriate or reasonable behavior in a professional setting, nevermind the potentially impressionable students at hand. 

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #154 on: January 17, 2023, 02:53:22 pm »
You can't have rules for everything.  No dress code in existence would have covered this, except maybe the expectation that he wear a bra.  Our legal system and even our Charter is full of areas of interpretation and caveats to cover stupidity like this. 

Corporate dress codes can include examples, but they aren't shopping lists and something like this would easily be covered by "appropriate and professional standards of dress." But it's not clear they had any sort of policy at all, which is probably why the person chose to dress how they did.

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Testing of boundaries, sure, but not intentionally making a mockery of them.

Potayto/potahto.

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This person was either intentionally trolling, or he's mentally unstable. No reasonable person would have assumed that comic-sized prosthetic breasts were appropriate or reasonable behavior in a professional setting, nevermind the potentially impressionable students at hand.

Irrelevant. In the absence of any sort of standard, the board's options were a) try and discipline the person and get their asses dragged into a lawsuit b) actually come up with a policy. They chose the latter.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 03:14:09 pm by Black Dog »

Offline Moonbox

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #155 on: January 17, 2023, 03:46:52 pm »
Corporate dress codes can include examples, but they aren't shopping lists and something like this would easily be covered by "appropriate and professional standards of dress." But it's not clear they had any sort of policy at all, which is probably why the person chose to dress how they did.

We are a Common Law society.  We do not have, nor do we expect to have, codified rules for everything.  There are many things that reasonable human beings would avoid doing and expect others to avoid doing through simple common sense.  Wearing comic-sized prosthetic breasts to teach a classroom falls under the same common-sense umbrella as, say, bringing your crusty anime sex-pillow with you and insisting on having it sit beside you while you work.  You're not going to find any official rulings or guidelines on this, but there's a reasonable expectation in any public setting, and particularly a professional setting, that this behavior isn't allowed.  Good luck finding a lawyer who'll take the case arguing your right to do that on contingency. 

Even if the school board ridiculously doesn't have professional standards of conduct (which I doubt), the Teacher's College does.

“Teachers are required to uphold the standards of their professional practice and ethical standards both in and out of the classroom,” says the report, signed by Diana Miles, chair of the college’s council, and Chantal Bélisle, the college’s chief executive officer.

School boards, in turn, must set and enforce rules for teachers to follow, the report says.

“Employers and school administrators have the primary responsibility to enforce their own policies and procedures. In most cases, school boards can and do address breaches of their policies and no regulatory intervention is necessary.”

The college reminded classroom instructors of “the critical need for teachers to adhere to government and employer policies and protocols, as part of their commitment to teacher professionalism.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/teachers-college-review-oakville-teacher-huge-fake-breasts-parents-lawsuit/wcm/5a915aee-68d3-42fe-ab12-e7b1f58ff738

Irrelevant. In the absence of any sort of standard, the board's options were a) try and discipline the person and get their asses dragged into a lawsuit b) actually come up with a policy. They chose the latter.

They only came up with a policy after they were threatened by lawsuits from parents. 

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #156 on: January 17, 2023, 04:05:06 pm »
We are a Common Law society.  We do not have, nor do we expect to have, codified rules for everything.  There are many things that reasonable human beings would avoid doing and expect others to avoid doing through simple common sense.  Wearing comic-sized prosthetic breasts to teach a classroom falls under the same common-sense umbrella as, say, bringing your crusty anime sex-pillow with you and insisting on having it sit beside you while you work.  You're not going to find any official rulings or guidelines on this, but there's a reasonable expectation in any public setting, and particularly a professional setting, that this behavior isn't allowed.  Good luck finding a lawyer who'll take the case arguing your right to do that on contingency. 

"Common sense" this and "reasonable expectations" that will get you nowhere if you don't have any policy at all, which, again, appears to be the case here. Good luck with telling the union lawyers or employment tribunal that you canned someone based on their bad vibes alone.

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Even if the school board ridiculously doesn't have professional standards of conduct (which I doubt), the Teacher's College does.

“Teachers are required to uphold the standards of their professional practice and ethical standards both in and out of the classroom,” says the report, signed by Diana Miles, chair of the college’s council, and Chantal Bélisle, the college’s chief executive officer.

School boards, in turn, must set and enforce rules for teachers to follow, the report says.

“Employers and school administrators have the primary responsibility to enforce their own policies and procedures. In most cases, school boards can and do address breaches of their policies and no regulatory intervention is necessary.”


This actually supports my point. If there was an applicable policy/code they could point to to take action on this, do you not suppose they would have done so?

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They only came up with a policy after they were threatened by lawsuits from parents.

Where'd you see this?

Offline After 9 years of Trudeau Shady

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #157 on: January 17, 2023, 04:34:36 pm »
Employers have significant latitude in how they enforce things like dress codes.  There is already significant case law related to these kinds of events.  Anyone that tells you a detailed “policy” is required is either immensely ignorant, or just lying.

What’s even more interesting, as the same people insisting that this particular lunatic can’t be fired because there’s no detailed policy, completely support a similar authority in pulling Jordan Peterson’s license, when there is similar vague non-detailed subjective policy.  It’s literally enforcement based on political preference with these people.  Utter, disgusting rank authoritarianism.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #158 on: January 17, 2023, 04:40:41 pm »
RIP boob man.  2022-2023.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #159 on: January 17, 2023, 05:21:17 pm »
Employers have significant latitude in how they enforce things like dress codes.  There is already significant case law related to these kinds of events. Anyone that tells you a detailed “policy” is required is either immensely ignorant, or just lying.

No one has said that you retarded jizzmop. It seems the board had no policy whatsoever to enforce. Honestly, it's kind of breathtaking watching you, a true moron's moron, slither around here trying and failing to be sentient.

The question I would put to the board, is why, if they had an extant policy that could be enforced they a) chose not to do so and b) decided to create a staff dress code policy.

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What’s even more interesting, as the same people insisting that this particular lunatic can’t be fired because there’s no detailed policy, completely support a similar authority in pulling Jordan Peterson’s license, when there is similar vague non-detailed subjective policy.  It’s literally enforcement based on political preference with these people.  Utter, disgusting rank authoritarianism.

That's only interesting to you, a halfwitted lizard creature that should have been choked to death at birth.

Here's a handy cheat guide you should get someone to read to you:

Boob guy: no policy, no discipline.
Jordache Pedosun: vague policy, faces discipline

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #160 on: January 17, 2023, 05:23:54 pm »
More evidence that the board had no staff dress code policy at all:

School board concludes it can't implement dress code after teacher wears giant fake breasts


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The Halton District School Board concluded in a newly released report that the board should not bring in a dress code for teachers because of human rights concerns.
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Sari Taha, the superintendent of human resources with the school board, told trustees that there are two considerations regarding dress codes. The first is whether a dress code would be allowed under labour and employment law. The second is whether it would be contrary to Ontario’s Human Rights Code.

Either way, the board can’t make any changes right now because it cannot update workplace rules during collective bargaining, which is ongoing. “Even if we are to consider a workplace rule in that sense, we can’t do that,” Taha told the board.

Still, the report concluded that the board would be exposed to “considerable liability” if it implemented a dress code on the basis of it being considered discriminatory.

“Where an employer’s dress or grooming standards create a discriminatory impact, it will be incumbent on the employer to establish that the standards are a bona fide occupational requirement, most likely on the basis that they are necessary to protect workplace health and safety,” the report says.

It notes that discrimination could take the form of a dress code that places more onerous requirements on female employees or forces them to dress in a more conventional manner. Any rules on grooming and clothing would also need to allow sufficient latitude for religious staff, the report says.

Maybe they had bad lawyer advice r maybe they're more willing to call Boob Guy's bluff, but the point is, you cannot legally enforce a policy that does not exist.

Offline Moonbox

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #161 on: January 17, 2023, 05:53:07 pm »
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"Common sense" this and "reasonable expectations" that will get you nowhere if you don't have any policy at all, which, again, appears to be the case here. Good luck with telling the union lawyers or employment tribunal that you canned someone based on their bad vibes alone

Common sense and reasonable expectations are applied and enforced regularly in legal settings. It's the one of the fundamental pillars for our legal system.  I can only imagine how eager the union lawyers would be to try to push this sort of clown case.  The employment tribunal would flop on its face as well, with it being near-impossible to form a coherent defense for someone wearing comic, completely impractical and no-doubt uncomfortable prosthetic breasts in the classroom.  "YOU NEVER SAID I COULDN'T" would not fly as a legal argument.  You don't get to do whatever you please because there aren't codified regulations against it.  If you're doing something obviously stupid/inappropriate, a reasonable person would assume it's not allowed and that's good enough for the Courts.  Human creativity outstrips its ability to write down specific rules. 

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This actually supports my point. If there was an applicable policy/code they could point to to take action on this, do you not suppose they would have done so?

No, because they did a dress code review back in November and decided not to implement one and to allow the teacher to continue.  Fast forward a couple of months, after parents started fundraising for legal costs and threatening their own action, and now the Board apparently has had a change of heart.   ???


 
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Offline Moonbox

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #162 on: January 17, 2023, 06:06:01 pm »
Maybe they had bad lawyer advice r maybe they're more willing to call Boob Guy's bluff, but the point is, you cannot legally enforce a policy that does not exist.

You don't need to have a policy.  You can't have a policy for everything.  This is a bad argument, and one that doesn't seem to understand how our legal system works.  Courts regularly toss these sorts of flimsy attempts at technical nitpicking.  "You never told me I couldn't do it" or "The contract didn't say I had to ____" or even, "You bought what you saw" are not sound legal arguments.  If you are subverting the spirit of your agreement and violating unspoken terms that both parties would have reasonably assumed as rational human beings, you lose.  That happens all the time in the courtroom.   
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guest7

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #163 on: January 17, 2023, 06:13:16 pm »
I bet they'd have come up with a policy pretty quickly if he'd worn a swastika over those t!ts.
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Offline After 9 years of Trudeau Shady

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Re: Anti-woke culture
« Reply #164 on: January 17, 2023, 06:42:59 pm »
I bet they'd have come up with a policy pretty quickly if he'd worn a swastika over those t!ts.
Winner!  Or a Trump t-shirt, or a Make America Great Again hat.  And the Douche defending this lunacy would suddenly be arguing the opposite side.  He’s a caricature of what a left wing, woke lunatic sh*t bag would act like.
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