Author Topic: A Call for Universities to Fail  (Read 135 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6964
A Call for Universities to Fail
« on: January 16, 2018, 06:27:10 am »
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/notre-dame-prof-calls-higher-ed-today-bullshit?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=9935398&utm_content=newsletter%289935398%29&utm_term=newsletter

I like this piece because it provides a general overview of the problems of universities without blaming a particular culture.  In fact, Universities have bloated because they were always seen as a path to middle-class living.    Really, they should be *higher* education, ie. education that produces those who will drive/mediate changes to our society: economically, intellectually (socially/scientifically), spiritually or in terms of values.

Those of us who are interested in getting a new car every 5 years should go elsewhere...

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Offline cybercoma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 11:16:34 am »
Parents want their children to go to university because it's the promise of social mobility for sure. Young adults have bought into this narrative to the tune of about 50% of the population getting university degrees now.

University, however, has always been a means of social stratification. It was meant to be a place where you need the prerequisite social and cultural capital to succeed. Governments have attempted to overcome this in the name of the greater good--again the promise of social mobility. So the upper classes have abandoned academic achievement as a sign of membership in the upper classes. Instead, they use their social capital to promote from within their ranks: "it's not WHAT you know, but WHO you know." They require students and new employees for entry level jobs to have years of volunteer experience and service. In the United States, unpaid internships are rampant. A working-class or lower-class family could not support a youth to go off and do volunteer service. A family without much financial capital can't support a young adult living on their own, working for free to acquire the new "pre-requisite" experience that was never needed even 20 years ago.

The goal posts have moved and the goalposts will always move because the upper class will not accept new membership because they see it as a threat to their existence. Consequently, university is no longer a pathway to social, cultural, and financial mobility. Credentialism has moved on to other, more difficult things for the unwashed masses to attain, now that university education has become democratized and socially subsidized.
Agree Agree x 2 View List

Offline cybercoma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 11:17:34 am »
I don't have time at the moment to read the article in the OP, but I should come back to this later to see what they say.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6964
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 04:31:47 pm »
When was the upper class defined by academic achievement ?

I watched Downtown Abbey and it was before then, for sure.

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4116
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 04:36:39 pm »
Who you know has always been an advantage. Getting people to work for nothing is a more recent concept.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6964
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 04:39:26 pm »
Who you know has always been an advantage. Getting people to work for nothing is a more recent concept.

I guess that's true.  My ancestor knew Og, the head caveman and got to sit closer to the fire.  Slavery didn't show up until Sumerian times.

Offline cybercoma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 08:20:15 pm »
Who you know has always been an advantage. Getting people to work for nothing is a more recent concept.
But thatís the thing, itís to weed out the working class. They canít afford to work for free. Students whoíve taken loans canít do it. Students who donít have wealthy families to support them as they ďbuildĒ experience canít do it. It cuts the rungs off the ladder of social mobility.

Offline Ghost of Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3865
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 09:58:57 pm »
But thatís the thing, itís to weed out the working class. They canít afford to work for free. Students whoíve taken loans canít do it. Students who donít have wealthy families to support them as they ďbuildĒ experience canít do it. It cuts the rungs off the ladder of social mobility.

I do agree with this.  On the other hand as devil's advocate, if you do well in life financially etc, don't you have every right to make things better for your children?

I also don't think it's purposefully to weed out the working class, any organization will accept free labour over paid labour if they can get away with it.

Offline cybercoma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2018, 12:03:04 pm »
I do agree with this.  On the other hand as devil's advocate, if you do well in life financially etc, don't you have every right to make things better for your children?
Of course you do,

Quote
I also don't think it's purposefully to weed out the working class, any organization will accept free labour over paid labour if they can get away with it.
It doesnít have to be purposeful. It just is. And those who benefit from it are 1) less likely to recognize the problem, and 2) less likely to do anything about even if they do.

Offline Peter F

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Location: I'd rather be in Quebec...
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 03:14:44 pm »
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/notre-dame-prof-calls-higher-ed-today-bullshit?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=9935398&utm_content=newsletter%289935398%29&utm_term=newsletter

  In fact, Universities have bloated because they were always seen as a path to middle-class living.    Really, they should be *higher* education, ie. education that produces those who will drive/mediate changes to our society: economically, intellectually (socially/scientifically), spiritually or in terms of values.

Those of us who are interested in getting a new car every 5 years should go elsewhere...

 Unfortunately, University degrees aid significantly in getting that new car every five years. Degree's generally result in more income through better jobs. More income allows more debt and so a new car every five years.  As Cybercoma indicates above, that new car is not only wrapped up in convenience but also status. It and all the other accoutrements of debt indicate a rise in the social hierarchy.  The degree is crucial to that climb. Not impossible to do without a degree but certainly requires far more effort. If only because of the prevelence of HR hobnobs scanning resumes to award those fine jobs.  Nothing new here actually. It's been going on since the industrial revolution. The only way out of the mills is higher education. The managerial class see to that.
"Never take on the role of management"
-- C.A.W. Shop Steward's manual.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6964
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 04:34:33 pm »
Unfortunately, University degrees aid significantly in getting that new car every five years. Degree's generally result in more income through better jobs.

Do they though ?

Quote
It's been going on since the industrial revolution. The only way out of the mills is higher education. The managerial class see to that.

Now I am disagree with you.  Entrepreneurship, certification, and jack of all trades seems to be where it's going. 

Offline cybercoma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 04:44:20 pm »
Do they though ?
Depends what youíre comparing. Compare to high school only, university degree holders earn substantially more. Compare to all college and trades programs, the margin is smaller but still quite a bit more. This is available info from the census, I think. I could try to hunt it down, if I wasnít so lazy.


Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6964
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 04:52:49 pm »
Yeah, but do they isolate out other factors like network/upbringing ?

Offline Peter F

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Location: I'd rather be in Quebec...
Re: A Call for Universities to Fail
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 05:36:08 pm »
Quote
Yeah, but do they isolate out other factors like network/upbringing ?

Those factors are heavily dependant upon status which is heavily dependant upon wealth which is heavily dependant upon education. They can't be separated out.
"Never take on the role of management"
-- C.A.W. Shop Steward's manual.