Author Topic: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?  (Read 134 times)

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Offline SuperColinBlow

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50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« on: July 31, 2019, 04:00:54 pm »
I should have posted this about a week or so ago, but I didn't. So now I am. (I gleaned the information within from Wikipedia; I know that isn't the most accurate source, but so be it. I don't have a subscription to Britannica.)

It's been 50 years since the world was captivated by Armstrong's & Aldrin's walk on the Moon. And...nada.

If you've seen "Apollo 13" you'll recall how the transmission from the capsule on its way to the Moon was dumped by the networks because, as one official put it, "they've made a trip to the Moon as exciting as one to Pittsburgh." The American public (and I will venture to assume, much of the World's population) quickly lost interest in the lunar program. We've beat the Russians, now let's spend the money on something else. The disaster of Apollo 13 temporarily peaked public interest because said disaster made it interesting to watch. I venture to guess that by Apollo 14, interest waned again.

And let's face it, the prohibitive cost of landing on the Moon--certainly of maintaining a lunar base--is part of the reason we haven't gone back since Apollo 17; to the tune of $25.4 billion ($158 billion in 2018 dollars). From 1964-66, NASA's budget peaked at 4% of all federal spending. [Wikipedia "Budget of NASA"]

It seems clear to me that if we hadn't had two wars we'd have a moon base by now. Alas, we don't. And it's a pity. And I'm wondering if we will ever go back for the same reason as that quote from Apollo 13 about a trip to Pittsburgh.
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Offline Omni

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 04:39:55 pm »
I should have posted this about a week or so ago, but I didn't. So now I am. (I gleaned the information within from Wikipedia; I know that isn't the most accurate source, but so be it. I don't have a subscription to Britannica.)

It's been 50 years since the world was captivated by Armstrong's & Aldrin's walk on the Moon. And...nada.

If you've seen "Apollo 13" you'll recall how the transmission from the capsule on its way to the Moon was dumped by the networks because, as one official put it, "they've made a trip to the Moon as exciting as one to Pittsburgh." The American public (and I will venture to assume, much of the World's population) quickly lost interest in the lunar program. We've beat the Russians, now let's spend the money on something else. The disaster of Apollo 13 temporarily peaked public interest because said disaster made it interesting to watch. I venture to guess that by Apollo 14, interest waned again.

And let's face it, the prohibitive cost of landing on the Moon--certainly of maintaining a lunar base--is part of the reason we haven't gone back since Apollo 17; to the tune of $25.4 billion ($158 billion in 2018 dollars). From 1964-66, NASA's budget peaked at 4% of all federal spending. [Wikipedia "Budget of NASA"]

It seems clear to me that if we hadn't had two wars we'd have a moon base by now. Alas, we don't. And it's a pity. And I'm wondering if we will ever go back for the same reason as that quote from Apollo 13 about a trip to Pittsburgh.

I suggest kicking Trump out of office and then you can focus tax dollars away from more guns/bombs, this time possibly headed for Iran, and also away from the corporate billionaires pockets Trump loves to cozy up to, and spend it on worthwhile things. Space travel may not interest you but perhaps more down to earth worthwhile issues, such as climate change.

Offline wilber

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 11:31:19 pm »
Like the space station, costs will make it an international affair.  There also has to be a really good reason to go there, other than just going there. I'm not sure I've heard one yet.
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Offline Omni

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2019, 12:14:45 am »
Like the space station, costs will make it an international affair.  There also has to be a really good reason to go there, other than just going there. I'm not sure I've heard one yet.

So let's then take all the dollars that could be spent on space exploration, put it in a separate bag, out of the hands of criminals like Trump and Putin, and spend it on valid projects here on earth, and not more **** wars. If we can't do that, let's go back to the moon or beyond.
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Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2019, 07:56:20 am »
So let's then take all the dollars that could be spent on space exploration, put it in a separate bag, out of the hands of criminals like Trump and Putin, and spend it on valid projects here on earth, and not more **** wars. If we can't do that, let's go back to the moon or beyond.

Yes, you mentioned that above, lol.
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Offline MH

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2019, 07:58:59 am »
So let's then take all the dollars that could be spent on space exploration, put it in a separate bag, out of the hands of criminals like Trump and Putin, and spend it on valid projects here on earth, and not more **** wars. If we can't do that, let's go back to the moon or beyond.

Hear hear.  We can enrich ourselves by investing in things that pay back better than the moon.  How about educating people so we don't have wide-mouth deficients voting in morons ?

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2019, 11:48:11 pm »
So you do not think we should spend any money on space exploration? I'd agree in part, because we do not know enough about the Earth as well compared to what we know of stuff in outer space. Personally, I think there will be a new space race as countries like China try to land on the Moon.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2019, 12:14:22 pm »
So you do not think we should spend any money on space exploration? I'd agree in part, because we do not know enough about the Earth as well compared to what we know of stuff in outer space. Personally, I think there will be a new space race as countries like China try to land on the Moon.

Space exploration should be about science, not chest thumping. Dragonfly and James Webb Space telescope are excellent examples of scientific exploration.

Offline kimmy

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2019, 02:04:11 pm »
A few weeks ago with all the hoopla about the 50th anniversary of the moon landing, I saw an article about "The Chilling Song That Dominated The Charts 50 Years Ago", In The Year 2525 by Zager and Evans.  Rick Evans died a few years ago, but they were able to talk to Danny Zager.  The song was their only hit, but it was a monster, and he described the surreal experience of watching TV and hearing their song playing as the rocket took off. 

This fan-made video fits the dystopian lyrics of the 50 year old song with dystopian imagery from the 90 year old movie "Metropolis". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQfxi8V5FA

 -k

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2019, 09:20:06 pm »
ummmmmmm.......neato.

Space exploration should be about science, not chest thumping. Dragonfly and James Webb Space telescope are excellent examples of scientific exploration.

The Kepler Telescope has discovered more and more exoplanets. You're quite right about the importance of actual science, rather than politics, in space exploration. Most of NASA's projects since Apollo 17 have been about that, not just "beating the Russkies" to the Moon. Voyager is also a good example.

Still, is there no value at all in a lunar research station of some sort?

Don't forget; the Apollo 11 Moon landing brought people together around the world, at a time when they needed it for sure.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 09:30:00 pm by SuperColinBlow »
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Offline MH

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2019, 08:01:03 am »
So you do not think we should spend any money on space exploration? I'd agree in part, because we do not know enough about the Earth as well compared to what we know of stuff in outer space. Personally, I think there will be a new space race as countries like China try to land on the Moon.

The question to ask is: what is the value that justifies the use of resources ? 

The 1960s space programs were driven by a mix of national pride, military and science motivators. 

In the 2010s you have a situation where a sizeable number of Americans think it was a conspiracy.  I think that may be a better place to allocate resources, ie. educating people and re-establishing science as a discipline above politics.

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2019, 12:40:40 pm »
Disagree with your point of "national pride". Had nothing to do with national pride, more about national security. That's not the same thing as pride. We were terrified that, if the Russians made it to the Moon first it would be an extreme threat to our national security. I'm sure there was plenty of national pride but I doubt that that was actually a motive.
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Offline MH

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2019, 01:15:52 pm »
1. Disagree with your point of "national pride". Had nothing to do with national pride, more about national security. 
2. We were terrified that, if the Russians made it to the Moon first it would be an extreme threat to our national security. I'm sure there was plenty of national pride but I doubt that that was actually a motive.
1. I played with that notion, but ended up putting national pride because ... well I was there and the cold war aspect was secondary.  It was more about our superior way of life, etc.  And 'our' being America so... I put military down too.
2. Were you around then ?

Offline ?Impact

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2019, 04:13:55 pm »
Still, is there no value at all in a lunar research station of some sort

Where, at what cost, and research what?

Where: Polar regions seem the most likely due to the presence of ice. Although the Sun would be close to the horizon, energy could still be harvested from solar panels due to the lack of an atmosphere interfering. The challenge would be to bring up enough batteries to last through the night (13 days), or long enough power cables to stretch to where it was day. A huge challenge is protecting against solar flares because the moon lacks an atmosphere and significant magnetic field to protect you from them (the ISS has far more protection than the Moon). Underground structures are the best bet, but a suitable underground cavern would need to be found near a polar region first.

At what cost: To meet the above challenges, a lot of weight in construction materials would need to brought there. The Saturn V could send about 90,000 lbs to lunar orbit, but less than 10% of that ever reached the surface (soft landing). My best guess is maybe 50% in a transport optimized lander could reach the surface. That means about 20 Saturn V size missions to bring the equivalent of the ISS to the lunar surface. Crew missions would be additional. The real unanswered question is how much would be required to build a structure capable of protecting against solar flares.

Research what: That is the big question. Not what you want to research, but what can you research better by a manned mission rather than remote sensing or robotics.

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: 50 Years since the Moon Landing....and....?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2019, 11:04:44 am »
1. I played with that notion, but ended up putting national pride because ... well I was there and the cold war aspect was secondary.  It was more about our superior way of life, etc.  And 'our' being America so... I put military down too.
2. Were you around then ?

OK, fine, national pride, whatever.

Where, at what cost, and research what?

Research what: That is the big question. Not what you want to research, but what can you research better by a manned mission rather than remote sensing or robotics.

And what do you think can or cannot be achieved by a manned mission as opposed to robotic probes?
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength