Author Topic: Your opinion of the 2019 election!  (Read 1938 times)

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Online wilber

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2019, 11:26:27 pm »
Nobody said such a major change would be simple. Inevitable is the more appropriate descriptor.

Actually the kill fossil fuel evangelists don't think any farther than that.
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Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2019, 11:33:29 pm »
Actually scientific evidence shows that stepping away from fossil fuels will help save this country and the world.

It will do nothing to reduce the global demand for oil.  It ain't going to do jack all if the US keeps pumping out GHG.  If the big emitters were cutting down drastically on GHG and we weren't and were lagging behind i'd totally agree with you.  But as small actors we shouldn't be global leaders in this when big actors aren't following suit because being global leaders means crippling our economy for very little reduction in global GHG.

I want to stop climate change as much as the next person.  But you can't cripple our major economic industry when the rest of the world keeps burning GHG.  What's the point???
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Offline Omni

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2019, 11:37:41 pm »
It will do nothing to reduce the global demand for oil.  It ain't going to do jack all if the US keeps pumping out GHG.  If the big emitters were cutting down drastically on GHG and we weren't and were lagging behind i'd totally agree with you.  But as small actors we shouldn't be global leaders in this when big actors aren't following suit because being global leaders means crippling our economy for very little reduction in global GHG.

I want to stop climate change as much as the next person.  But you can't cripple our major economic industry when the rest of the world keeps burning GHG.  What's the point???

Sounds like the typical climate denier screed. You don't have to cripple the economy, you have to adjust it. And it's probably smart to think about doing so before we suck the last barrels out of the dirt while we're coughing up phlemb.
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Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2019, 11:39:50 pm »
Nobody said such a major change would be simple. Inevitable is the more appropriate descriptor.

You guys want to kill pipelines, shut down oilsands etc.  You guys want to put tons of people out of work in AB.  Why don't you guys put your money where your mouth is, and instead of asking them to make all the sacrifice, why don't you guys go out and sell your internal combustion engine cars and buy an expensive Tesla and make the environment a better place? Why don't you stop hopping on carbon-spewing airplanes and taking vacations?

You don't because you guys are all talk, you're hypocrites, you want others to pay the price while you do next to nothing.  Let the market do the talking and reduce the demand for oil yourself instead of government forcing the issue.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb
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Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2019, 11:46:59 pm »
Sounds like the typical climate denier screed. You don't have to cripple the economy, you have to adjust it. And it's probably smart to think about doing so before we suck the last barrels out of the dirt while we're coughing up phlemb.

How the hell does government "adjust the economy"?  You're talking about talking about blowing up one of the leading industries in Canada and magically creating a new leading industry in Canada?  If Canada could just create huge industries in Canada out of thin air don't you think we'd be doing so all the time?

How to do you create massive market demand for clean energy when it's not there?  By spending gazillions on clean tax breaks?  Do you guys know how capitalism works?  I'm all for getting rid of oil subsidies and whatnot, just level the playing field, even providing incentives for reducing GHG or buying electric cars etc.  But that won't transform our economy.  You're talking about centrally planning a major part of the economy, it's freaking communism.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb
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Offline Omni

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2019, 11:57:22 pm »
How the hell does government "adjust the economy"?  You're talking about talking about blowing up one of the leading industries in Canada and magically creating a new leading industry in Canada?  If Canada could just create huge industries in Canada out of thin air don't you think we'd be doing so all the time?

How to do you create massive market demand for clean energy when it's not there?  By spending gazillions on clean tax breaks?  Do you guys know how capitalism works?  I'm all for getting rid of oil subsidies and whatnot, just level the playing field, even providing incentives for reducing GHG or buying electric cars etc.  But that won't transform our economy.  You're talking about centrally planning a major part of the economy, it's freaking communism.

A little over 60% of Canada's electricity comes from renewables, and we sell about 10% to the US. Clean energy/clean profits. Get with it.

Online wilber

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2019, 12:33:13 am »
A little over 60% of Canada's electricity comes from renewables, and we sell about 10% to the US. Clean energy/clean profits. Get with it.

You still haven't answered the questions. Ragging on Alberta because it hasn't changed its ways while producing 21% of this country's GDP and over 25% of its exports and no concrete ideas how to replace, just get rid of it and think you can carry on your present lifestyle.
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Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2019, 12:58:03 am »
A little over 60% of Canada's electricity comes from renewables, and we sell about 10% to the US. Clean energy/clean profits. Get with it.

And Canada's electricity exports are how much of Canada's economy?  How much do you pay for electricity in Ontario?
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Online wilber

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2019, 09:13:57 am »
A little over 60% of Canada's electricity comes from renewables, and we sell about 10% to the US. Clean energy/clean profits. Get with it.
Only because parts of the country had  large hydro electric potential but even that has its limits. How many more dams can Quebec and Labrador  build? Site C wil be the last major project in BC unless the greenies are planning on putting dams on the country’s two major salmon producing rivers, and the environmentalists were opposed to Site C.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 09:24:29 am by wilber »
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Offline John Mark Taylor

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2019, 10:46:27 am »
**** AB and their pipelines while you still fill your vehicle with gas, right?  That's the kind of fantastic attitude that will make Alberta separate, and decimate our economy while the Saudis pump out more oil to make up for our "f**k pipelines" BS, the Saudi oil of course Canada already buys from and would need more from & needs to be shipped by oil-fueled GHG-emitting tankers across half the globe to fill our cars that 99.9% of the country still uses.

This is why Elizabeth May is complete and utter moron.  If her party were elected, she would have destroyed Canada, AB would be gone in a heartbeat.  She's a complete imbecile.  Fortunately the vast majority of Canadians are well aware of this as per the election results.

Hyperbolic nonsense.  Alberta will continue to make billions with current capacity.  I was in favour of TMX - this election convinced me that Albertans are whiners.  **** their pipeline....and don't let the door hit them on the way out.
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Online wilber

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2019, 12:45:56 pm »
I find the one dimensional thinking on this issue quite depressing.

Green house gases are causing climate change so we need to reduce emissions. Fair enough but it also presents a huge problem for the country's economy that the fossil fuel killers who are running around with their hair on fire won't touch with a barge pole. How do you develop and produce alternative energy sources when at the same time you are trying to kill the industry that provides over 10% of the country's GDP, over 20% of its exports and you are already running deficits? Where will the money come from to develop those technologies and keep them in Canada, rather than having our companies and universities just doing R&D for foreign corps and governments?

We can and will develop new technologies and we have some things in our favour, like stable government (with some cracks) and an educated population. So do other countries and many don't have the regulatory, constitutional and FN minefield companies have to negotiate to do business in Canada. To think we can just replace what energy contributes to this country with no problem is a stretch. I don't say it can't or won't happen but I'm not one of the Pollyanna's who think it will all magically work itself out, because I don't believe Canadians have some god given right to continue enjoying the same standard of living most of us now have.
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Online Goddess

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2019, 01:12:10 pm »
The previous NDP government in Alberta had started initiatives to diversify the economy slowly and steadily.  That plan was rejected by Albertans when they voted the Conservatives back in.  It wasn't all Notley's fault - Trudeau played her like a fiddle and she fell for it.  The whole country fell for it.

Let's say the climate change hair-on-fire enthusiasts get their way and the oilpatch is shut down tomorrow.  No one wants to talk about how that would play out - not just for Alberta but for Canada.  I dont' understand how the rest of Canada can reject Alberta's oil - while still insisting on their transfer payments and accepting Saudi and Venezuelan oil.  It's the height of hypocrisy to me.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2019, 01:15:14 pm »
At least we had the good sense to elect a PM who has a concern and an understanding of the climate change issue rather than someone who would simply kowtow to the industry and put the issue on "ignore" mode.
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Online wilber

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2019, 01:35:19 pm »
At least we had the good sense to elect a PM who has a concern and an understanding of the climate change issue rather than someone who would simply kowtow to the industry and put the issue on "ignore" mode.

There's kowtowing and there's kowtowing. It's good that the feds are going to push through with TMX but it hasn't gone unnoticed that while JT is intent on pushing TMX through out west, he didn't push back at all when it came to Energy East and Quebec.

He is the PM though and I hope for the best. Get mad at Alberta but the Liberals didn't get one seat between Winnipeg and greater Vancouver. It isn't just Alberta.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: Your opinion of the 2019 election!
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2019, 01:46:55 pm »
There's kowtowing and there's kowtowing. It's good that the feds are going to push through with TMX but it hasn't gone unnoticed that while JT is intent on pushing TMX through out west, he didn't push back at all when it came to Energy East and Quebec.

He is the PM though and I hope for the best. Get mad at Alberta but the Liberals didn't get one seat between Winnipeg and greater Vancouver. It isn't just Alberta.

I prefer the somewhat more balanced approach such as knowing we can't turn off all the the taps tomorrow, but we need to look ahead to weening ourselves off air pollution methods of creating energy since there are clearly alternates available.
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