Author Topic: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?  (Read 2480 times)

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guest4

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When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« on: November 11, 2017, 02:33:24 pm »
By asking this question, I don't mean legally - I mean in terms of acceptance.   This was a question asked by a co-worker when we were talking about the racism we've both encountered from other White Canadians.  We (myself included) look at someone's skin, headgear, listen to their language and identify them as "immigrants", even if we have no idea if they, their parents or their grandparents were born here or elsewhere.  And then we have discussions on how 'immigrants' buy too many houses, take too many jobs, don't work enough, are a drain on the economy, don't speak English, don't 'fit' in with the rest of us.  We track how many of "us" vs. "them" there are in the country and (some of us) fret endlessly about how the 'wrong' people are coming to Canada. 

This question was really brought home to me when I watched a video of the Remembrance Day parade in Surrey.   When the cadets marched past, most of them were from a 'visible' minority.  In Surrey, the split between visible minorities and Whites is close to 50/50, but in the parade it was more like 90/10.  Perhaps not all of these kids will go on to become part of the system that protects "Canada" and "Canadians", but I think it is significant that they outnumber whites by quite a bit at this early recruitment stage.   And I think once people demonstrate a willingness to put their life on the line to protect Canada, then they should perhaps be allowed to become "Canadians" and not "immigrants". 
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A line here, because this is sort-of related, and arises from a video I watched about how population is slowing around the world and if current trends continue will peak at around 11 billion in 2100, and level out.  There will be about 1 billion people in the Americas, 1 billion in Europe, with the remaining 9 billion spread over the Asias/Africa and Middle East.   Clearly, the "White European" contingent will be at a significant disadvantage in terms of population.  Add to that the expectation that developing countries will also experience a growth in wealth and education, how much longer can the (White) Western world expect to maintain the global dominance they now enjoy? 

I know that many people believe that as Canadians, we should protect and promote "Canadian" culture.   But it seems to me that cultures change over time, that they do not remain static and unchanging forever.  So when I think of the future of Canada as a country and a culture, the inevitable result of falling birth rates and immigration to at least maintain our current population, I wonder what we will really protect and promote for our future Canada.   I think this goes beyond turbans and head scarves, to what we share internally regardless of how we look on the outside.  And this brings me back to the question:  When do immigrants become "Canadians"?   When do we accept their customs as part of Canadian custom, similar to the way in which pagan festivals have become part of the Christian Church?   When do we accept that people can really be Canadian even if they speak different languages or wear different clothes?   

   

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 02:37:31 pm »
Can you describe Canadian culture in a way that doesn't evoke artifacts such as foods or rituals ?  Without Tim Hortons or goin' for a rip ?  Backcountry or cottage country ?

How about just a pragmatic and congenial nature, along with a focus on work, an unassuming countenance and a desire to persevere ?  Maybe that's not Canadian but there's something Canadian in it. 

guest4

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 02:51:47 pm »
Can you describe Canadian culture in a way that doesn't evoke artifacts such as foods or rituals ?  Without Tim Hortons or goin' for a rip ?  Backcountry or cottage country ?

How about just a pragmatic and congenial nature, along with a focus on work, an unassuming countenance and a desire to persevere ?  Maybe that's not Canadian but there's something Canadian in it.

Yeah, that's the issue isn't it?  I wanted to include that *I* think is Canadian, but sure as heck someone would disagree and who am I to say I'm right and they're wrong?

I guess if I wanted to define "Canadian" beyond clothes/food/rituals, I would say it's a commitment to respect all people, to defend or protect those who are less fortunate or at risk in some way, to strive to be a better citizen, either locally or in the world.   This doesn't mean we always succeed, of course; even Canadians are only human.  But for me, these are what matter when it comes to Canadian values and I think as a nation, we are pretty darn successful at it, overall.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 03:28:34 pm »
Can you describe Canadian culture in a way that doesn't evoke artifacts such as foods or rituals ?  Without Tim Hortons or goin' for a rip ?  Backcountry or cottage country ?

How about just a pragmatic and congenial nature, along with a focus on work, an unassuming countenance and a desire to persevere ?  Maybe that's not Canadian but there's something Canadian in it.

To describe everything that makes up Canadian culture would take far too many words anyone here is willing to type, and would still miss things.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 03:48:23 pm »
Btw this thread brings up a good question, I'll have to give it some thought.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline TimG

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 03:59:07 pm »
By asking this question, I don't mean legally - I mean in terms of acceptance.
Speaking English with a Canadian accent. Jagmeet Singh looks different but as soon as people hear him speak there is no doubt that he is Canadian.

Offline Omni

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 04:18:15 pm »
I am the product of immigrants (Scotland) but was born in Canada. I admit I didn't think all that much about it, and I guess therefore took my country for granted in my early years. Then I got into the work world and eventually had the good luck to be sent to travel extensively outside of Canada with the job. While those trips were interesting, informative, provided me opportunities to meet and befriend people from many ethnic/cultural backgrounds, it also made me realize just how lucky I was to be a Canadian and to not take it for granted. One thing that enhanced that notion was the way I was treated at customs counters in whatever country when you handed the agent a Canadian passport. A quick stamp, a word or a gesture of welcome, and on my way. That told me that my compatriots, both past and present, had created a respect for the country and it's people that one can be proud of, and one must also do ones best to maintain.

The downside were some of those 17 hour flights. :D   

Offline Robert

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 07:57:48 pm »
Yeah, that's the issue isn't it?  I wanted to include that *I* think is Canadian, but sure as heck someone would disagree and who am I to say I'm right and they're wrong?

I guess if I wanted to define "Canadian" beyond clothes/food/rituals, I would say it's a commitment to respect all people, to defend or protect those who are less fortunate or at risk in some way, to strive to be a better citizen, either locally or in the world.   This doesn't mean we always succeed, of course; even Canadians are only human.  But for me, these are what matter when it comes to Canadian values and I think as a nation, we are pretty darn successful at it, overall.

As with everything there are limits even for Canadians, we" try" to respect all people and yet we have failed in so many areas ie Native Americans, etc etc .   We love to call ourselves peace keepers, not warriors that defend and protect, and when we do decide to be warriors "we fall back on our fast food, fast cars, fast service, life style" it has a limited shelf life, and limited patience...I do like Canadian values and would not live any wheres else, OK if someone offered up an island vacation spot with no snow....maybe. But i am always glad to get back home.... 

Offline SirJohn

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 11:33:10 am »
By asking this question, I don't mean legally - I mean in terms of acceptance.
 

When their ethnicity becomes irrelevant to them, or at least downgraded to the way "German Canadians" or "Ukrainian Canadians" or "English-Canadians" think of their heritage. That includes not wearing foreign cultural outfits and not believing in foreign cultural values.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 11:34:35 am »
Can you describe Canadian culture in a way that doesn't evoke artifacts such as foods or rituals ?  Without Tim Hortons or goin' for a rip ?  Backcountry or cottage country ?

Describing what it means to be a Canadian is like describing art. It's easier to point out what we think FAILS to qualify than what the actual requirements are. And yes, wearing a niquab fails big time.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 11:36:15 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 11:38:54 am »
When their ethnicity becomes irrelevant to them, or at least downgraded to the way "German Canadians" or "Ukrainian Canadians" or "English-Canadians" think of their heritage. That includes not wearing foreign cultural outfits and not believing in foreign cultural values.

I guess you therefore would disapprove of  all the Canadian soldiers wearing kilts and marching in the Remembrance Day parades yesterday then.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 11:43:50 am »
I guess you therefore would disapprove of  all the Canadian soldiers wearing kilts and marching in the Remembrance Day parades yesterday then.

British military history is Canadian military history, and their traditions were incorporated into our military, so no. Canadians WERE all British citizens until 1947.

On the other hand, if a guy at the office wanted to wear kilts all the time and eat hagis for lunch I'd think he was a lunatic.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 11:45:20 am »
Describing what it means to be a Canadian is like describing art. It's easier to point out what we think FAILS to qualify than what the actual requirements are. And yes, wearing a niquab fails big time.

I don't think it fails but maybe I agree about the failure of language.  We can try though, and maybe get a better picture.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2017, 11:53:23 am »
I don't think it fails but maybe I agree about the failure of language.  We can try though, and maybe get a better picture.

To really be Canadian you have to blend into the mainstream. You know how I'll know immigrants have assimilated? When I go to a hockey game or a curling match and don't see a sea of white. For that matter, the whitest place in Ottawa seems to be at Canadian Blood services on Carling when they hold a blood drive. Why, I don't know.  Most of the restaurants I go to seem to lack much in the way of pigment diversity too. I suspect immigrants go to 'their own' restaurants.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 12:29:26 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: When do immigrants become "Canadians"?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2017, 12:00:41 pm »
To really be Canadian you have to blend into the mainstream. You know how I'll know immigrants have assimilated? When I go to a hockey game or a curling match and don't see a see of white.

How about when those sports die out entirely ?  Same thing right ?