Author Topic: Virtue Signalling  (Read 2176 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Virtue Signalling
« on: February 04, 2018, 11:12:22 am »
I'd like to explore this topic as though I were a perfectly objective person, willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.  Given that Canada has already a general idea of itself as a virtuous society what need is there for political operatives and groups to distinguish themselves from others in terms of virtue ?

Is this 'old politics' or is a necessary part of society considering new questions and discussing them in our moral 'publics' ?

Examples include anything Justin Trudeau says about values, and now this:

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2018, 11:33:50 am »
Not sure this should be in Canadian politics since virtue signalling seems universal. But certainly Trudeau proudly calling himself a feminist at every possible opportunity, and insisting half his cabinet would be female is virtue signalling. His insistence on taking all those Syrian refugees immediately following the news viewing of that dead boy on the beach was virtue signalling. Him putting 'middle class' into every speech about fifty times is virtue signalling. Marching in gay pride parades when you're not gay is virtue signalling. Even his 'town hall' things are virtue signalling (look at me, I'm a honest, ordinary guy who likes to talk to you ordinary folks!).

Down south, it's all virtue signalling. The NFL kneel downs for the national anthem are all about virtue signalling - on both sides. You think Trump even knows anything about football or has ever watched a game? You think the owners holding arms with Black football players who won't stand up is anything but virtue signalling when what they'd really like to do is fire their asses? Politicians who waves guns on stage to show what rebels they are, that's virtue signalling, as is every political ad carefully crafted to have multicultural people in it.

Coke has new TV ads featuring gay and transgendered people in it. Pure virtue signalling.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 11:58:53 am »
So  what is virtue signalling, exactly?   Can someone define it for me?

Offline TimG

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2018, 12:02:07 pm »
So  what is virtue signalling, exactly?   Can someone define it for me?
Not sure if it has a formal meaning.
I define it to mean: "engaging in actions that do nothing or cause harm in order to be perceived as a virtuous person".

Doing things that are actually good is not virtue signalling.


Offline waldo

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2018, 12:03:40 pm »
So  what is virtue signalling, exactly?   Can someone define it for me?

its anything Trudeau does that Argus doesn't like
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2018, 12:04:17 pm »
Ok, and 'actions' mean message conveyance here ?

So - talking as opposed to acting, or acting as opposed to acting symbolically.

Offline Omni

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2018, 12:09:12 pm »


conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2018, 12:11:11 pm »

conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group

Ok, so you have to have a great view into peoples' intentions to assess it.

Offline Omni

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2018, 12:19:31 pm »
Ok, so you have to have a great view into peoples' intentions to assess it.

Seems to me it is quite often assessed based on bias. If you don't happen to like TJ then him trying to institute paternal leave is simply  virtue signalling. Whereas if you happen to like Trump then him trying to gut the DOJ and or the FBI is long overdue. Politics seems to often overrule any proper dissection of intentions.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2018, 12:24:49 pm »
Ok, so there's no getting past the subjectivity.
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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2018, 12:27:36 pm »
Not sure if it has a formal meaning.
I define it to mean: "engaging in actions that do nothing or cause harm in order to be perceived as a virtuous person".

Doing things that are actually good is not virtue signalling.

Ok.  But is that objective or subjective?  Clearly JT bringing in Syrian refugees and creating a gender-balanced cabinet is good for Syrian refugees and women.   Neither of those actions have had a  discernably negative affect on Canada, yet they've been described as "virtue signalling".

guest4

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2018, 12:29:23 pm »

conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group

This seems fairly apt, and I think could describe JT showing up to hug Syrian kids when they landed.  And it does take some of the objectivity out.  Or maybe not.   Hmmmm....

guest4

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 12:31:13 pm »
Ok, so there's no getting past the subjectivity.

If that's true, then it becomes virtually meaningless in any discussion, other than to throw shade at "the other guy".

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2018, 12:35:48 pm »
If that's true, then it becomes virtually meaningless in any discussion, other than to throw shade at "the other guy".

So - ask somebody how to objectively use the word, if it's not just another derogatory word for people of different viewpoints.  If they can't answer then maybe propose a word that can use to convey a principle.

Snowflakes.  Always used to describe liberals.  Therefore it's just a one-sided insult.

Offline TimG

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2018, 12:39:37 pm »
If that's true, then it becomes virtually meaningless in any discussion, other than to throw shade at "the other guy".
Depends if there are facts to support the claim that the action/non-action does nothing or causes harm. If it can be shown (as in the case of most CO2 reduction policy) that the action at best accomplishes nothing then you can objectively say that people supporting such policies are virtue signalling. Simply believing that an action is useful is not enough.