Author Topic: Violence on the east coast  (Read 230 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 03:53:07 pm »
One is a right, the other is a privilege, so of course there are “different rules”.

good on ya member squiggy, good on ya! Thanks for succinctly explaining the issue: as you state, the indigenous have an all-year/all-season right while the non-indigenous fishers have a partial-year/only in-season privilege. Good on ya!

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 04:14:04 pm »
The only politician with the cajones to call this domestic terrorism has been Jaghmeet Singh.

He doesn't have balls.  He just plays identity politics.  Did he ever call the US race riots "domestic terrorism", and would he ever dare?  How did he respond to the Air India terrorism?  Oh but he then tried to backtrack.  A dangerous snake of a politician.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 04:32:55 pm »
good on ya member squiggy, good on ya! Thanks for succinctly explaining the issue: as you state, the indigenous have an all-year/all-season right while the non-indigenous fishers have a partial-year/only in-season privilege. Good on ya!

People criticizing the Liberal Party?  Time for Waldo to put on them fighting gloves!
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 08:11:41 pm »
good on ya member squiggy, good on ya! Thanks for succinctly explaining the issue: as you state, the indigenous have an all-year/all-season right while the non-indigenous fishers have a partial-year/only in-season privilege. Good on ya!

I didn’t say the right was an unfettered year-round right.  The courts have ruled that restrictions can be put in place by the feds for conservation reasons.  But, being a right, any infringements have to be justified.

That’s why I said that, in lieu of the same restrictions, enough lobsters should be removed from the commercial fishery to satisfy the right so it doesn’t compromise conservation.

Quote
... known as Marshall 2. In it, the court clarified that the federal government, through DFO, could still regulate Mi'kmaw harvesting for the purposes of conservation, if it consulted with the First Nation and could justify the regulations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/mi-kmaq-self-regulated-moderate-livelihood-fishery-1.5727622
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:22:23 pm by the_squid »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 11:36:30 pm »
It doesn't make much sense to me to give the original stewards of our environment the right to hunt and fish during spawning seasons.  It would make a lot more sense to hunt and fish when everyone else does to protect the environment and then just freeze the meat for all-year consumption and sale like everyone else does.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2020, 12:57:47 pm »
It doesn't make much sense to me to give the original stewards of our environment the right to hunt and fish during spawning seasons.  It would make a lot more sense to hunt and fish when everyone else does to protect the environment and then just freeze the meat for all-year consumption and sale like everyone else does.

The real fight that must come sooner or later is going to be in limiting their food fishery and sustenance hunting to just that. That challenge to their aboriginal rights at least stands a chance of succeeding in Canada's courts.

All that's lacking now is a government that is willing to risk the loss of their votes. On our plus side, there are fewer and fewer who are willinig to get blood on their hands for the sake of sustenance fishing or hunting.

Offline JMT

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2020, 01:48:59 pm »
It doesn't make much sense to me to give the original stewards of our environment the right to hunt and fish during spawning seasons.  It would make a lot more sense to hunt and fish when everyone else does to protect the environment and then just freeze the meat for all-year consumption and sale like everyone else does.

If it were an conservation concern, you might have a point.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2020, 01:50:12 pm »
You get these disagreements when there's 2 different sets of rules for 2 different groups and then one thinks the other is being treated better than they are.

Until non indigenous people accept that '2 different sets of rules' is the legal basis for the existence of this country, we're going to have a bad time.
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2020, 02:25:40 pm »
Until non indigenous people accept that '2 different sets of rules' is the legal basis for the existence of this country, we're going to have a bad time.

If only it was that easy. There are much bigger issues than that to solve and they can't wait much longer to be addresses. But when you make the issue into just understanding that, you're showing that you probably don't understand the impact of allowing aboriginals to completely close off a river with a gillnet that spans shore to shore, for one simple example.

Offline JMT

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2020, 02:49:24 pm »
If only it was that easy. There are much bigger issues than that to solve and they can't wait much longer to be addresses. But when you make the issue into just understanding that, you're showing that you probably don't understand the impact of allowing aboriginals to completely close off a river with a gillnet that spans shore to shore, for one simple example.

Nice straw man.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2020, 09:34:52 pm »
Quote
In LFA 34, the regulatory name for the body of water near St Mary's Bay, where the indigenous lobster fishery is located, there are 979 lobster licences, and each licence is allowed to carry about 375-400 traps during the season. The Sipekne'katik fishery has issued 11 licences, with the right to carry 50 traps each.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54472604

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2020, 11:13:20 pm »
Until non indigenous people accept that '2 different sets of rules' is the legal basis for the existence of this country, we're going to have a bad time.

And these different sets of rules have worked out horrendously bad and have created the main schisms in this country throughout its entire existence going back to when Europeans first arrived.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2020, 11:15:22 pm »
If it were an conservation concern, you might have a point.

It's obviously part of it.  Both sides have said so.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline JMT

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2020, 11:32:34 pm »
It's obviously part of it.  Both sides have said so.

It’s literally not a conservation concern. Experts from the region and on the issue have already weighed in.

Offline JMT

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Re: Violence on the east coast
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2020, 11:33:14 pm »
And these different sets of rules have worked out horrendously bad and have created the main schisms in this country throughout its entire existence going back to when Europeans first arrived.

Well, if we want to keep existing as a country, we’d better find a way to accept reality.
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