Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38857 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #990 on: March 20, 2019, 01:15:59 am »
... the problem is not that SNC lobbied with political figures.  It's that politicians attempted to pressure the Attorney General to interfere in a case.

She also testified that she considers these repeated attempts to pressure her extremely inappropriate.

She also testified that she believes she was removed from the position of Attorney General because she wouldn't do what they were pressuring her to do in regard to SNC-Lavalin.

your parroting of JWR's "truth" is noted... as you've done several times before. You accept that "JWR truth" while dispensing with counter statements/testimony that, "no undue pressure, no improper pressure", was exercised. Since you've gone to the trouble of using the words, "pressure, pressuring" 3 times in your post I'm quoting above, please provide your subjective understanding of the subjectivity used by JWR to determine her labeling as "inappropriate". Thanks in advance!

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #991 on: March 20, 2019, 03:03:28 am »
The DPP, working within the Public Prosecution Service of Canada (PPSC), made the decision to prosecute SNC-L, and did not state a need for a DPA, to the AG, nor did the AG to the DPP. 
https://www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca/eng/bas/index.html#section_1_4

What is the PPSC?:

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Recent legislation passed by Parliament split the conduct of federal prosecutions from the Department of Justice and created the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (officially called the Public Prosecution Service of Canada). The Public Prosecution Service of Canada (PPSC) is a federal government organization, created on December 12, 2006, when the Director of Public Prosecutions Act, Part 3 of the Federal Accountability Act, came into force.

The PPSC fulfills the responsibilities of the Attorney General of Canada in the discharge of the Attorney General's criminal law mandate by prosecuting criminal offences under federal jurisdiction and by contributing to strengthening the criminal justice system.

In this regard, the PPSC assumes the role played within the Department of Justice by the former Federal Prosecution Service (FPS). The PPSC takes on additional responsibilities for prosecuting new fraud offences under the Financial Administration Act, as well as offences under the Canada Elections Act. Unlike the FPS, which was part of the Department of Justice, the PPSC is an independent organization, reporting to Parliament through the Attorney General of Canada.

The PPSC is responsible for prosecuting offences under more than 50 federal statutes and for providing prosecution-related legal advice to law enforcement agencies. Cases prosecuted by the PPSC include those involving drugs, organized crime, terrorism, tax law, money laundering and proceeds of crime, crimes against humanity and war crimes, Criminal Code offences in the territories, and a large number of federal regulatory offences.

The creation of the PPSC reflects the decision to make transparent the principle of prosecutorial independence, free from any improper influence. The mandate of the PPSC is set out in the Director of Public Prosecutions Act. The Act calls on the PPSC to provide prosecutorial advice to law enforcement agencies, and to act as prosecutor in matters prosecuted by the Attorney General of Canada on behalf of the Crown. In addition, the mandate includes initiating and conducting prosecutions on behalf of the Crown with respect to offences under the Canada Elections Act.

The PPSC reports to Parliament through the Attorney General of Canada. The Director of Public Prosecutions Act states that the Director of Public Prosecutions acts “under and on behalf of the Attorney General of Canada.” The relationship between the Attorney General and the Director is premised on the principles of respect for the independence of the prosecution function and the need to consult on important matters of general interest.

Safeguarding the Director's independence is the requirement that all instructions from the Attorney General be in writing and published in the Canada Gazette. In turn, the Director must inform the Attorney General of any prosecution or planned intervention that may raise important questions of general interest, allowing the Attorney General the opportunity to intervene in, or assume conduct of, a case. Additionally, the PPSC must provide the Attorney General with an annual report for tabling in Parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_Public_Prosecutions#Canada

So as we can see, the PPSC, which prosecutes the likes of SNC-L, and fulfills the AG's mandate & responsibilities, was deliberately separated from the Ministry of Justice by the Harper gov so that it would be clearly independent and free from partisan political interference, as is the case for the AG.  The PM & PMO, Privy Clerk etc wanted to interfere with the independence of the AG and the DPP/PPSC (through the AG).  When it could not, the PM removed and replaced the AG.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #992 on: March 20, 2019, 03:58:44 am »
The DPP, working within the Public Prosecution Service of Canada (PPSC), made the decision to prosecute SNC-L, and did not state a need for a DPA, to the AG, nor did the AG to the DPP.

no - it's just a(nother) legal assessment... one different from the initial PPSC legal assessment made - the one that did state SNC-Lavalin was to be offered a DPA for negotiation purposes. Again, any legal assessment stands until usurped by another; in this circumstance, the current legal assessment is subject to change up until a court verdict is actually delivered. This inconvenient fact gets in the way of those spouting off, "JWR's final decision, JWR's final decision"!

considering there appears to be no formalization of said JWR "final decision"... no formalized/documented legal basis for said JWR "final decision", just what are you presenting here, other than parroting St. Jody's "truth"?

The PM & PMO, Privy Clerk etc wanted to interfere with the independence of the AG and the DPP/PPSC (through the AG).  When it could not, the PM removed and replaced the AG.

and your evidence of this is..... what? From the testimony, we know for a fact that JWR stopped... prevented... refused to allow her own Justice Department to provide the Clerk of the Privy Council's office the Justice Department's internal analysis & assessment of the impact of a conviction/sentencing on the company. What was/is JWR hiding with that refusal? From the testimony we heard that public interest assessments were a key consideration in wanting the possibility of a review done... not a decision change; rather, just a review to properly ascertain all information and circumstance was known. Another 'stone cold fact' is that JWR is said to have expressed extreme displeasure with the suggestion an independent 3rd-party analysis be done by the likes of (if not the actual) former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. What was JWR so concerned about in having someone of that stature consulted? To the thinking & enlightened these facts simply showcase considerations for "due diligence" being done.

as for your nonsense about cause for replacing JWR: a forced cabinet shuffle caused the need to move personnel. The shift of Philpott to the Treasury Board was a logical choice given her background; equally, with Philpott's shift leaving Indigenous Services needing a new assignment, JWR was, to many, another logical choice. If anything warranted a removal of JWR from Justice/AG it was her many failures and difficulties in that combined role... critical assessments of those failures are well understood/documented - examples presented earlier within this thread.

Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #993 on: March 20, 2019, 11:16:48 am »
Your inability to respond to the legal issues I have cited speaks loudly. So does the pathetic attempt to say in one breath I don't prove what I say, then in the next breath when I do prove it make up the bull **** response it's too long to read. What apathetic attempt to bluff your way through laws you did not read and hide from the legal wordings.

As for Mr. Graham finish what you appear to mock. Did you bother to try understand what wording applies and which wording does not? Go on finish what you started. Take the wording and point out what I said that is incorrect. Waldo can't. Omni can't. How about you.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 06:42:17 pm by Rue »
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Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #994 on: March 20, 2019, 11:31:00 am »
considering there appears to be no formalization of said JWR "final decision"... no formalized/documented legal basis for said JWR "final decision", just what are you presenting here, other than parroting St. Jody's "truth"?

Well we have both the University of Waldo Law School and Waldo Land where fantasies come ttrue.

In this fantasy world the AG never turned down the dpa because Waldo says it and I quote" does not appear in writing".

The reality is something Waldo can't handle and that is in fact that the Director of Public Prosecutions not just JWR rejected SNC-Lavalin Group Inc.’s request to negotiate a remediation agreement.

In fact it was because it was turned down by Ms. Roussel that the Prime Minister then did what he did through his PMO office and Privy Council head to "repeatedly ask" but according to Waldo not pressure JWR to overturn this decision of Ms. Roussel.

Reality is not something Waldo cares to deal with.

In fact what the testimony shows before Trudeau shut it down was that the PMO fully expected the Director of Public Prosecutions, Kathleen Roussel, to offer SNC-Lavalin a deal and when she did not started "repeatedly asking" but hey Waldo says that was not pressuring,  JWRto overrule Ms. Roussel and in fact JWR refused.

In Waldoland he pretends Ms. Roussel is not independent, did not exist, did not make the actual decision and that the decision rejected negotiations.

In fact there was an agreement to use dpa's in principle but never specifically for the on-going Lavalin matter.

Let's have Waldo produce his evidence that Ms. Roussel or JWR stated they agreed to a dpa with Lavalin for its bribery case with Libya. It does not exist.

In fact when Ms. Roussel refused to consider a dpa, Lavalin then went to the federal court arguing she overstepped her authority in denying SNC-Lavalin’s request to negotiate a remediation agreement  arguing that it was and I quote from Lavalin" “the decision is based on an unreasonable exercise of her discretion and must be set aside for several reasons.”

The Federal Court throughout Lavalin's attempt to second guess Ms. Roussel's decision.

So just what world does Waldo live in where he spews off at the mouth about "its just a legal assessment" and according to him we can ignore the express preconditions and factors that must be considered as set out in the dpa for one to be considered?

What world does Waldo live in where he ignores the clear prohibition when considering public interest to ignore national economic interest, i.e., potential unproven potential loss of jobs?

What world does Waldo live in where he ignores reality and the Federal Court ruling and when given the express preconditions and factors and prohibition the prosecutor had to apply, pretends they don't exist?

Has anyone seen Waldo?

When he does show up  he engages in an alternative reality and won't address the dpa wording. Does anyone know why? Could it be the Mandela effect?






« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 07:17:09 pm by Rue »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #995 on: March 20, 2019, 03:06:04 pm »
Een more imbecilic is the fact that Trudeau, Butt, Wernik never offered a legal assessment as none of them had the capacity to do so, they were in fact given a legal opinion that did not suit their political agenda and hat is why they challenged it as hey admitted. They care on rcrd as saying they were not concerned about the law.

Correct, they never offered a legal assessment, why would they? They are accused of asking the AG to seek legal advice. Try following the reality of the situation, not the Sheer crafted scandal narrative.
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Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #996 on: March 20, 2019, 07:20:12 pm »
Correct, they never offered a legal assessment, why would they? They are accused of asking the AG to seek legal advice. Try following the reality of the situation, not the Sheer crafted scandal narrative.

I love your response. Sheer genius. I re-edited my previous answer so that even you can understand it and why don't you follow the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with Sheer.  What happened is public record. To try deny reality and say Sheer created it is brilliant.

Geniuses you Liberal patoots are.Sheer geniuses.
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Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #997 on: March 20, 2019, 07:33:28 pm »
In fact Mr. Trudeau has covered up and will not allow Ms. Roussel to testify or produce her reasons why she rejected the dpa.

I went through the wording of the dpa to point by point show the preconditions, factors and prohibitions she would have had to consider.

Waldo has not acknowledged these wordings and their implications because he has no idea how to.

Now we have Impact saying I am repeating Sheer's script.

Mr. Sheer did not write the dpa law, Trudeau's minions did.

Sheer did not set out the factors DPP  had to consider the dpa did. I have asked Waldo and Graham and now Impact, show me where it says in the dpa law, the preconditions, factors and prohibitions can all be ignored.

Show specifically where the DPP can ignore the fact that Lavalin brought to the authorities attention the acts and omissions that formed the basis of their offence because the dpa says as a precondition for being considered for a dpa this voluntary disclosure should have been done.

In the reality Impact and Waldo et al won't accept,  SNC-Lavalin did not disclose information to police about alleged wrongdoing involving the former head of its international operations, Riadh Ben Aissa, before the RCMP conducted a raid on the company’s Montreal head office in April, 2012, at the behest of Swiss authorities.

Have legal scholar Waldo and Impact et al explain how this failure by SNC-Lavalin to alert police in a timely fashion would not have been considered by the DPP.

Ask the legal scholar Waldo to explain why allowing a company to negotiate a remediation agreement  only after it or its employees get caught by would not decrease the incentive for other companies to voluntarily come forward and admit wrongdoing.

Ask the legal scholar Waldo to explain why in the United States, where he claims many deferred prosecution agreements have existed for years, in fact, voluntary disclosure has always been onsidered a critical factor by the Department of Justice in whether to grant a DPA.

Ask Prof. Waldo why Trudeau won't allow released the reasons for the rejection of the dpa for Lavalin.

Another day another University of Waldo Law School and Waldo Wonderland series of communiques responded to by yours truly Rue aka  Mr. Dimples.

Lol.

You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #998 on: March 20, 2019, 08:28:03 pm »
Correct, they never offered a legal assessment, why would they? They are accused of asking the AG to seek legal advice. Try following the reality of the situation, not the Sheer crafted scandal narrative.

Looks like rue didn't quite get the gist of your comment for a while. :D

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #999 on: March 21, 2019, 01:04:55 am »
Waldo Law // Waldo Land // because Waldo // something Waldo // to Waldo // something Waldo // Waldo says // In Waldoland // have Waldo // does Waldo // Waldo live // does Waldo // seen Waldo
Waldo has // asked Waldo // Waldo et al // Waldo and // Waldo to // scholar Waldo // Waldo why // of Waldo // and Waldo

waldo's livin' large, livin' rent free in your head!  ;D Am I a... good tenant?

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #1000 on: March 21, 2019, 01:08:19 am »
Looks like rue didn't quite get the gist of your comment for a while. :D

geezaz! The guy gets directly called out on another turd he drops... so he seeks cover by editing his post! Talk about dishonest...

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #1001 on: March 21, 2019, 01:17:33 am »
still asking... still waiting! Appears it's a most inconvenient question... yet so simple/basic to the feverishly spun, "DPAs Bad... DPAs Rare", narrative.

prosecution (and presumed conviction) versus negotiated settlement ala DPA --- just who/what would realize the impact of a presumptive conviction - and how might that be any different than what might be realized through a negotiated DPA?

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #1002 on: March 21, 2019, 06:39:19 am »
Anybody else tapped out on this ?

Trudeau mishandled this with his 'apology' but now Scheer is over-playing it.

My final take:

1. JWR was p*'d off
2. Some others got p*'d off in sympathy
3. No laws broken
4. Justin Trudeau continues to disappoint

Moving on...

Offline Boges

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #1003 on: March 21, 2019, 08:55:00 am »
Jane Phillpott disagrees MH.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/jane-philpott-theres-much-more-to-the-story-that-needs-to-be-told/

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I believe the former attorney general has further points to make. I believe that I have further issues of concern that I’m not free to share. There was a reference by Gerry Butts in his testimony of the fact that I spoke to the Prime Minister on January the 6th about SNC-Lavalin’s desire to have a DPA [deferred prosecution agreement]. This was more than a month before the story became public. And I ordinarily would have not been allowed to share that information. But of course it’s already on the public record from the Justice Committee. I think Canadians might want to know why I would have raised that with the Prime Minister a month before the public knew about it. Why would I have felt that there was a reason why former Minister Wilson-Raybould should not be shuffled?

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If nothing wrong took place, then why don’t we waive privilege on the whole issue and let those who have something to say on it speak their minds and share their stories?

Oh and it appears that this was 100% political as SNC-Lavalin claims jobs were never at risk.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5077066/snc-lavalin-ceo-job-losses/

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The chief executive of SNC-Lavalin Group Inc. says he never cited the protection of 9,000 Canadian jobs as a reason the company should be granted a remediation agreement to avoid a criminal trial on allegations it paid millions of dollars in bribes to obtain government business in Libya.

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“There would be a reduction with us but these are talented folks. They’ll get a job,” Bruce said.

“This thing that somehow they’re going to be unemployed is not true because they are highly qualified, highly experienced people.”

Those jobs were gonna get done by someone. It's not like a manufacturing company uprooting and moving to Mexico.
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Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #1004 on: March 21, 2019, 08:59:16 am »
Looks like rue didn't quite get the gist of your comment for a while. :D

Looks like you two giggling legal scholars didn't get the gist of your comments or mine. Then again it appears th etwo of you have selective gist processes.
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