Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 11083 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #630 on: March 06, 2019, 12:38:49 pm »
a simple plan for a small tidy shuffle!

Brison leaving government/Treasury Board (President) on his want to leave government service: Philpott to fill the Brison vacated position notably based on her prior position as the Vice_Chair of the Treasury Board; JWR to shift to Minister of Indigenous Services, filling in for Philpott; David Lametti to fill position of Justice Minister/AG notably based on his prior legal background/positions. A simple plan for a small tidy shuffle... one that never would have occurred if not for the 'forced hand' precipitated by Brison's imminent departure. Oh my! One that had absolutely nothing to do with the SNC-Lavalin 'file'! Oh my!

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #631 on: March 06, 2019, 01:33:10 pm »
no more out-of-context than any other poll asking participants to name their preferred Prime Minister
It's interesting that you use this as a proxy for voting intention when there are polls that ask voting intention.

I mean, it's not actually interesting. You're doing it because it shows the results you want, whilst the voting intention polls show the Liberals getting hammered.

In any case, it's still early. Scheer has plenty of time to hang himself and the Liberals are supposed to announce something about pharmacare today.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #632 on: March 06, 2019, 01:35:00 pm »
Nobody believes a word out of the PM or PMO.  Smoke and mirrors.  We should be careful to believe JWR, a cunning lawyer and politician, on her word.  It will come down to the evidence in writing.

I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #633 on: March 06, 2019, 02:33:43 pm »
The Liberals overruled a motion to produce relevant emails, texts, etc from Butts.  There wiĺl be no paper trail produced to get to the bottom of what actually happened.

Which, for me,  certainly adds more creedance to JWR's testimon and makes Butts' credibility uncertain at best.   Buts is covering for the PMO, as I said he would.

If the PMO did nothing wrong, then let's see all the relevant documents.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 02:35:20 pm by the_squid »
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #634 on: March 06, 2019, 02:59:10 pm »
It's interesting that you use this as a proxy for voting intention when there are polls that ask voting intention.

I mean, it's not actually interesting. You're doing it because it shows the results you want, whilst the voting intention polls show the Liberals getting hammered.

In any case, it's still early. Scheer has plenty of time to hang himself and the Liberals are supposed to announce something about pharmacare today.

it is what it is - it provided a snapshot of the last week of a rolling 4 week coverage of participants voting for their respective preference for Prime Minister... which is exactly what I stated. I also stated that this same 'rolling week' approach or aggregate polling offers additional insight - certainly more than a single poll snapshot that had the member gleefully touting it.

look, I appreciate your beloved NDP party/leader has become a non-entity... more so now than ever. Please, please - don't take your frustrations out on the waldo - thanks in advance!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #635 on: March 06, 2019, 03:00:23 pm »
Nobody believes a word out of the PM or PMO.

agreed, your select circle is ScheeringTight!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #636 on: March 06, 2019, 03:07:13 pm »
The Liberals overruled a motion to produce relevant emails, texts, etc from Butts.  There wiĺl be no paper trail produced to get to the bottom of what actually happened.

Which, for me,  certainly adds more creedance to JWR's testimon and makes Butts' credibility uncertain at best.   Buts is covering for the PMO, as I said he would.

If the PMO did nothing wrong, then let's see all the relevant documents.

where was the ScheerCon motion to have JWR produce same, hey? Did that absence also bolster your, 'creedance(sic)' evaluation? I mean, c'mon - surely, your presumption is some gotcha moments between the PMO & JWR... why aren't you asking for JWR's same, 'relevant emails, texts, etc'? Ain't she gonna be on the send/receive/distribution of all that relevant correspondence you're so clamoring for? GDamnit, JWR is covering for the PMO!!!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #637 on: March 06, 2019, 04:29:49 pm »
guys, guys... why your double standard - your one-way selective call for, "relevant emails, texts, etc"? Just think, if we had Jody's stuff we might be able to shed light on why she, per testimony today, refused to allow the DPP to send the legal assessment to the PCO? Oh my, why try to hide that? Equally, we might be able to find out why there was no openness to having an independent 3rd party jurist offer opinion... particularly for brand new legislation, never applied and without regulations and available precedent! Is JWR that much of a 'know-it-all'?
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #638 on: March 06, 2019, 04:45:22 pm »
10:05-08 a.m.: MPs debate and vote down a motion to put Mr. Butts under oath, which has not happened at the committee in 25 years. I can assure all members of the committee that I will tell the truth, Mr. Butts says

https://youtu.be/IdtKbq3Omkw
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #639 on: March 06, 2019, 05:09:36 pm »
10:05-08 a.m.: MPs debate and vote down a motion to put Mr. Butts under oath, which has not happened at the committee in 25 years. I can assure all members of the committee that I will tell the truth, Mr. Butts says

instead of offering up your ignorant and stupid video, why didn't you take the time to note that no persons giving testimony were asked to do so 'under oath'... not even St. Jody! And, that's right - the swearing in of a witness giving testimony hasn't occurred in 25 years... which, if applied, could be swearing an oath or making a solemn affirmation. You know, just like St. Jody... didn't!
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Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #640 on: March 06, 2019, 06:35:32 pm »
At first I thought Butt's explanation for her removal at Justice had the ring of truth. i.e. she was offered indigenous affairs but turned it down, however, the PM did not want set a precedent that ministers could avoid shuffles by refusing to leave. After about 5 minutes I realized this argument is complete nonsense because:

1) If you have a position to fill you look for volunteers. You don't choose someone and they say that if they turn it down they will be moved anyways *unless* you want the person out of the position the hold currently for some reason.

2) If a hypothetical cabinet minister needed to be removed the PM can just boot them out of cabinet if they did not want any alternate positions.  So there was no "precedent" being set.




Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #641 on: March 06, 2019, 07:49:54 pm »
At first I thought Butt's explanation for her removal at Justice had the ring of truth. i.e. she was offered indigenous affairs but turned it down, however, the PM did not want set a precedent that ministers could avoid shuffles by refusing to leave. After about 5 minutes I realized this argument is complete nonsense because:

1) If you have a position to fill you look for volunteers. You don't choose someone and they say that if they turn it down they will be moved anyways *unless* you want the person out of the position the hold currently for some reason.

2) If a hypothetical cabinet minister needed to be removed the PM can just boot them out of cabinet if they did not want any alternate positions.  So there was no "precedent" being set.

hasn't someone here repeatedly stated, 'Ministers serve at the pleasure of the PM'? I'm surprised you wouldn't expect selection by experience/background/merit would drive decision making in filling cabinet positions - go figure. As I stated:
a simple plan for a small tidy shuffle!

Brison leaving government/Treasury Board (President) on his want to leave government service: Philpott to fill the Brison vacated position notably based on her prior position as the Vice_Chair of the Treasury Board; JWR to shift to Minister of Indigenous Services, filling in for Philpott; David Lametti to fill position of Justice Minister/AG notably based on his prior legal background/positions. A simple plan for a small tidy shuffle... one that never would have occurred if not for the 'forced hand' precipitated by Brison's imminent departure. Oh my! One that had absolutely nothing to do with the SNC-Lavalin 'file'! Oh my!

please speak of MPs you're aware of who have refused to accept new cabinet assignments as a part of any government's cabinet shuffle... JWR's refusal necessitated the need to find an alternate replacement for Philpott's vacated Minister of Indigenous Services position - that was filled by Seamus O'Regan (leaving Veterans Affairs/Defence Ministry). That left the need to fill the Minister of Veterans Affairs vacancy; accordingly, JWR was moved to Veterans Affairs/Associate Minister of Defence.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #642 on: March 06, 2019, 08:02:33 pm »
Jane Philpott is being lauded by many for standing by JWR because they're good friends... Gerald Butts is being dismissed by many because he's been a friend of PM Trudeau for over 30 years

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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #643 on: March 06, 2019, 08:03:46 pm »
At first I thought Butt's explanation for her removal at Justice had the ring of truth. i.e. she was offered indigenous affairs but turned it down, however, the PM did not want set a precedent that ministers could avoid shuffles by refusing to leave. After about 5 minutes I realized this argument is complete nonsense because:

1) If you have a position to fill you look for volunteers. You don't choose someone and they say that if they turn it down they will be moved anyways *unless* you want the person out of the position the hold currently for some reason.

2) If a hypothetical cabinet minister needed to be removed the PM can just boot them out of cabinet if they did not want any alternate positions.  So there was no "precedent" being set.

I think the actual nonsense here is saying when you need a cabinet position filled you simply "look for volunteers". I suspect a much better approach would ne to look for people with experience pertinent to the position.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #644 on: March 06, 2019, 08:14:08 pm »
JWR's refusal necessitated the need to find an alternate replacement for Philpott's vacated Minister of Indigenous Services position - that was filled by Seamus O'Regan (leaving Veterans Affairs/Defence Ministry). That left the need to fill the Minister of Veterans Affairs vacancy; accordingly, JWR was moved to Veterans Affairs/Associate Minister of Defence.
Huh? One minister out means one new minister in. They could have brought a back bencher to take on veterans affairs. There is absolutely no justification for moving a minister that did not want to move unless they wanted her gone. The issue now is Butts is obviously being deceptive because the only way his explanation makes sense is they wanted her out at justice for reasons unrelated to the shuffle. If he was willing to be honest he would have admitted that and explained exactly why he wanted her out.

It is also laughable that you continue to spout the tripe that ministers are appointed based on their ability. Outside of critical portfolios like finance, they are appointed based on gender/race/regional concerns first. If they happen to have relevant expertise then that happy bonus - not the objective.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 08:18:01 pm by TimG »
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