Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38368 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #495 on: March 03, 2019, 05:00:11 pm »
What led up to her being removed is what matters...  political interference in the juducial process is a no-no...   and the PM was caught because he appointed someone with ethics that differed from his (she had some).

ya ya, St. Jody's truth - self-described by JWR as, "her truth"!  :o

all the ConMedia and Scheer acolytes hell-bent in outright accepting, 'the truth as set forth by Jody'!

poor JWR - such ethics, such sensitivities to her described "undue pressure" (as identified and determined by... Jody).
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #496 on: March 03, 2019, 05:01:18 pm »
What led up to her being removed is what matters...  political interference in the juducial process is a no-no...   and the PM was caught because he appointed someone with ethics that differed from his (she had some).

She was also, arguably, not that good at her job.  I started out completely in her corner on this, but the more time goes by, the further I get from that corner.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #497 on: March 03, 2019, 05:07:58 pm »
She was also, arguably, not that good at her job.  I started out completely in her corner on this, but the more time goes by, the further I get from that corner.
9 out of 10 cabinet ministers are "arguably not that good at their job" because merit is not the primary criteria used to decide who gets what portfolio. So if that is the standard then Trudeau should have a lot of empty positions to fill. IOW, this line of argument is a post-hoc rationalization designed to obscur the most likely reason for her termination: the desire to interfere with the judicial process for partisan political gain.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 05:10:11 pm by TimG »
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #498 on: March 03, 2019, 05:15:16 pm »
9 out of 10 cabinet ministers are "arguably not that good at their job"

Oooh, citation.  There's a lot of evidence that she wasn't very good at her job, from unfilled judicial appointments, to cases left on her desk, to arguably unconstitutional laws.  That's why ministers get moved.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #499 on: March 03, 2019, 05:25:42 pm »
Oooh, citation.  There's a lot of evidence that she wasn't very good at her job, from unfilled judicial appointments, to cases left on her desk, to arguably unconstitutional laws.  That's why ministers get moved.

Yes and just now parliament is on a 2 week break so Trudeau will have time to review the issues you speak of.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #500 on: March 03, 2019, 05:39:32 pm »
Maybe - the question is why?

Could lit be this?

https://twitter.com/BellaLawyer/status/1102032046157910016

Could it be the growing list of unfilled justice appointments?

Everyone knows why.  You honestly think it was this and not the SNC-Lavalin DPA?  How many times did Glen Assoun lobby the PMO?

Yes the PM can remove/shuffle any cabinet minister.  But the new AG also can't pursue a DPA because the PMO wants it for electoral reasons.  It's also not appropriate for a PMO etc to continually pressure an AG after a decision has been made using veiled threats.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #501 on: March 03, 2019, 05:40:37 pm »
Everyone knows why.  You honestly think it was this and not the SNC-Lavalin DPA? 

I think all of it speaks to a pattern.

Quote
Yes the PM can remove/shuffle any cabinet minister.  But the new AG also can't pursue a DPA because the PMO wants it for electoral reasons.  It's also not appropriate for a PMO etc to continually pressure an AG after a decision has been made using veiled threats.

It's time we stop pretending that the AG isn't a political office in Canada.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #502 on: March 03, 2019, 06:01:27 pm »
It's time we stop pretending that the AG isn't a political office in Canada.

I think it's time we separate the AG and Justice Minister into two jobs.

I think everybody here is smart enough to understand why the AG is supposed to be independent of political interference.

I think some of you are willing to excuse it in this case because the goal was supposedly laudatory.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #503 on: March 03, 2019, 06:06:59 pm »
But the new AG also can't pursue a DPA because the PMO wants it for electoral reasons.  It's also not appropriate for a PMO etc to continually pressure an AG after a decision has been made using veiled threats.

please stop parroting "Jody's truth"!

would it be appropriate for an AG/Justice Minister to refuse to provide her personal view on DPAs? Would it be appropriate for an AG to refuse to consider a DPA option because of a personal predilection against DPAs?
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #504 on: March 03, 2019, 06:07:31 pm »
I think it's time we separate the AG and Justice Minister into two jobs.

I think everybody here is smart enough to understand why the AG is supposed to be independent of political interference.

I think some of you are willing to excuse it in this case because the goal was supposedly laudatory.

 -k

I think that separating the offices will do nothing - the AG will still be a political office.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #505 on: March 03, 2019, 06:08:43 pm »
The notion that 9000 jobs would just disappear from the economy if SNC-Lavalin were prevented from receiving federal contracts for 10 years is mistaken.  Federal contracts are going to be awarded, whether SNC-Lavalin is there to receive them or not.  If SNC has to lay off employees because they don't win federal contracts, firms that do win federal contracts will be hiring.  Canada has many successful engineering companies, some of them located just across town from SNC-Lavalin.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #506 on: March 03, 2019, 06:10:35 pm »
I think that separating the offices will do nothing - the AG will still be a political office.

The only reason this mess has occurred in the first place is that the Prime Minister has the power to fire an inconvenient AG and shop for a new one. If the AG were accountable to an independent body rather than a politician, this wouldn't have occurred.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #507 on: March 03, 2019, 06:19:41 pm »
It's time we stop pretending that the AG isn't a political office in Canada.

of course the (former) Justice Minister, JWR, sat at the cabinet table... and, of course, heard ongoing debate within cabinet concerning the option for considering a DPA for SNC-Lavalin. Such "undue" (undefined, unregistered, non-calibrated, non-measured) pressure coming at the AJ Justice Minister! Oh my!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #508 on: March 03, 2019, 06:25:02 pm »
The notion that 9000 jobs would just disappear from the economy if SNC-Lavalin were prevented from receiving federal contracts for 10 years is mistaken.  Federal contracts are going to be awarded, whether SNC-Lavalin is there to receive them or not.  If SNC has to lay off employees because they don't win federal contracts, firms that do win federal contracts will be hiring.  Canada has many successful engineering companies, some of them located just across town from SNC-Lavalin.

such a naive grouping of statements. The viability of the company is said to be at state - to the point it would, effectively, sever its operations within Canada and move its base to the UK... if it wasn't outright take-over given its significantly weakened position. Those 9000 jobs are all across Canada - I trust your negating their value would go over well in those related locations. Let them eat cake, hey?
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #509 on: March 03, 2019, 06:28:54 pm »
The only reason this mess has occurred in the first place is that the Prime Minister has the power to fire an inconvenient AG and shop for a new one. If the AG were accountable to an independent body rather than a politician, this wouldn't have occurred.

you finally make a relevant point; even if done inadvertently on your part! There are concerns in separating out the roles and making the AG one separate from government... something about a new government coming in and having the (possibly different) ideologies of the current AG impacting upon them. Naw, that would never happen, right?
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