Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38374 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #480 on: March 03, 2019, 12:22:16 pm »
"We didn't tell her what to do.  We just fired her because she didn't do what we'd decided on. It's totally different!"

 -k

The cabinet serves at the pleasure of the PM - he can move or remove a minister for any reason.  That is not under discussion.

Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #481 on: March 03, 2019, 12:25:58 pm »
The cabinet serves at the pleasure of the PM - he can move or remove a minister for any reason.  That is not under discussion.
Just because the PM can do something does not mean his motivations for doing it don't matter. i.e. doing something you can do for the wrong reasons is wrong.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #482 on: March 03, 2019, 12:27:04 pm »
and yet you have no qualms in repeatedly speaking to a "demotion". As you now openly state, you're not factoring anything else into why she might have been moved to other roles; you're not factoring the merits of her job performance and, I expect, you're not factoring her working relationships and the expressions of her work colleagues that speak to her as 'difficult', 'not-open', 'inflexible', etc.. Nor, I expect, are you factoring her formalized mandate... if you're not aware, all Ministers received mandates in terms of expected work/accomplishments they were to meet - a mandate she most certainly came no where close to meeting.
This laundry list of reasons-- anonymous whispers about her personality, alleged dissatisfaction with her work, "hey, maybe it's because she doesn't speak French", "she'd still be Justice minister if Scott Brison hadn't resigned," etc-- have the air of post-hoc rationalizing, or butt-covering.

it should be clear to anyone, even you, JWR did not have the appropriate background for the job in the first place... I'll let you state why she might have been chosen given her background was a mere 4 years as a junior prosecutor handling low-level drug crimes. She did not come any where near completing the official mandate she received; there is no shortage of opinion and fact based statements offered that she did not perform well, did not accomplish much, most of what she accomplished has received significant criticism, etc.. Additionally, it appears she was most difficult to work with while having questionable relationship skills - I mean, c'mon... who (other than JWR) burns through 4 Chief-of-Staffs in 3.5 years?

JWR was tasked not only with the Ministry of Veteran Affairs, she was also given the role of Associate Minister of National Defence. Your implication that she personally might consider the cabinet shuffle a demotion is simply more consideration for the view JWR is a whiny vindictive person bent on retaliation... and yes, to your earlier point, there is an ever growing sense/suspicion that JWR may herself be the anonymous source for the Robert Fife/G&M story that kicked all this off.

following your demotion theme there is no shortage of opinion (much of it fact based) that JWR performed poorly, was difficult to work with and didn't get along with others; as presented earlier:

=> Jody Wilson-Raybould Did A Poor Job As Justice Minister

=> Wilson-Raybould battled Bennett, other ministers over Indigenous rights framework

=> Wilson-Raybould’s regrettable legacy as justice minister

=>

« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 12:28:53 pm by waldo »

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #483 on: March 03, 2019, 12:32:04 pm »
We just fired her...

you keep stating this; again - no one was fired - or do you consider movement/reassignment within cabinet as... being fired?

Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #484 on: March 03, 2019, 12:42:21 pm »
Maybe finally the government will seriously consider separating the offices of AG and Min. of Justice. It has always seemed an obvious conflict when one office has to answer to the PM while the other is to be independent.  I do see that regardless of the recent turmoil, JWR is happilly preparing to run again for the Liberals. Trudeau will have to decide if she gets into caucus or not if she'e re elected.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #485 on: March 03, 2019, 12:43:09 pm »
it should be clear to anyone, even you, JWR did not have the appropriate background for the job in the first place... I'll let you state why she might have been chosen given her background was a mere 4 years as a junior prosecutor handling low-level drug crimes. She did not come any where near completing the official mandate she received; there is no shortage of opinion and fact based statements offered that she did not perform well, did not accomplish much, most of what she accomplished has received significant criticism, etc.. Additionally, it appears she was most difficult to work with while having questionable relationship skills - I mean, c'mon... who (other than JWR) burns through 4 Chief-of-Staffs in 3.5 years?

So according to your view, JT and the Sunshine Band appointed an unqualified person to the post of Justice Minister/Attorney General, and stuck with her through 3.5 years of incompetence and bungling, but decided to axe her from the job 2 weeks after Michael Wernick told her that the PM was determined to get a DPA for SNC-Lavalin, "one way or another".  Curious timing, you'd have to agree.

you keep stating this; again - no one was fired - or do you consider movement/reassignment within cabinet as... being fired?

She was removed from the post of AG. Based on what we now know about the circumstances, I think it's fair to say she was fired from that job.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #486 on: March 03, 2019, 01:24:11 pm »

She was removed from the post of AG. Based on what we now know about the circumstances, I think it's fair to say she was fired from that job.

 -k

Maybe - the question is why?

Could lit be this?

https://twitter.com/BellaLawyer/status/1102032046157910016

Could it be the growing list of unfilled justice appointments?

Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #487 on: March 03, 2019, 02:55:09 pm »
Could it be the growing list of unfilled justice appointments?
Then there should be documentation of the issue being brought to JWR's attention along with warnings that failure to improve will mean termination. It is not a big ask to expect the PM to meet standards that any HR dept must meet when firing a employee for non-performance.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #488 on: March 03, 2019, 03:19:38 pm »
Then there should be documentation of the issue being brought to JWR's attention along with warnings that failure to improve will mean termination.

Again, the cabinet serves at the pleasure of the PM.  I've never seen such a big deal made in the past about what happens regularly when a minister retires.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #489 on: March 03, 2019, 03:41:52 pm »
Again, the cabinet serves at the pleasure of the PM.  I've never seen such a big deal made in the past about what happens regularly when a minister retires.
There never was a need to question the motivations in the past. With JWR the motivations matter because it makes the difference between normal cabinet disagreements and political interference in the judicial process.

In any case, providing warnings to non-performing employees is people-management-skills 101 even if she can't sue for wrongful termination. This is especially true given the rhetoric around the need reduce the number of women in leadership positions who quit rather than put up with the culture.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #490 on: March 03, 2019, 03:42:55 pm »
Then there should be documentation of the issue being brought to JWR's attention along with warnings that failure to improve will mean termination. It is not a big ask to expect the PM to meet standards that any HR dept must meet when firing a employee for non-performance.

She was a minister in cabinet, she was not fired - period - period - period. This is not about her losing a job.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #491 on: March 03, 2019, 03:58:13 pm »
There never was a need to question the motivations in the past.

Never?  Never?  Bull

Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #492 on: March 03, 2019, 04:13:22 pm »
She was a minister in cabinet, she was not fired - period - period - period. This is not about her losing a job.
Meaningless semantics. She was doing a job. She was told by the boss  that she could not do that job anymore. IOW, she was fired. Why waste your time debating such things? It is not as if it the semantics actually provide an excuse. If she was removed from her job so the PM could better interfere in the judicial process for partisan political gain then the precise nature of her contract is irrelevant.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #493 on: March 03, 2019, 04:27:44 pm »
Meaningless semantics. She was doing a job. She was told by the boss  that she could not do that job anymore. IOW, she was fired. Why waste your time debating such things? It is not as if it the semantics actually provide an excuse. If she was removed from her job so the PM could better interfere in the judicial process for partisan political gain then the precise nature of her contract is irrelevant.

If she was "fired" as you keep trying to suggest, why is she still sitting in her seat as a Liberal MP and planning to run in the upcoming election as a Liberal MP?

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #494 on: March 03, 2019, 04:48:50 pm »
What led up to her being removed is what matters...  political interference in the juducial process is a no-no...   and the PM was caught because he appointed someone with ethics that differed from his (she had some).
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