Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38321 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #450 on: March 02, 2019, 01:47:55 pm »
The DPP isn't, if an AG acting on partisan calculations of the PM can override them.

if an AJ directive to reevaluate the initial decision were to be made, by law that directive must be supported/explained, transparently, through the 'Canada Gazette' - your claimed "partisan calculations" would be revealed. Are you sure you wouldn't like a do-over for your statement?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #451 on: March 02, 2019, 01:49:47 pm »
This is how you handle being given the chance to serve our veterans:

This government puts veterans at a low priority.  They just barely give a crap. The 2018 budget is 367 pages.  90+ pages are dedicated to women/gender issues, another 20+ pages for indigenous reconciliation.  They have only 3 pages dedicated to veterans issues.

To compare, they have 2 pages dedicated to reducing tobacco smoking.  Add 2 more pages to cannabis issues, and this gov has more space dedicated to crap you suck in your lungs than to veterans issues. Oh, and of course tobacco/cannabis is featured earlier in budget pages than veterans, to add to the insult.

I can picture it now, Justin and Butts sitting around campus getting high together while dreaming of legal pot while saving women and indigenous folks.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #452 on: March 02, 2019, 01:56:31 pm »
if an AJ directive to reevaluate the initial decision were to be made, by law that directive must be supported/explained, transparently, through the 'Canada Gazette' - your claimed "partisan calculations" would be revealed. Are you sure you wouldn't like a do-over for your statement?

I'm sure JWR or any AG would have written "The reasons for the deferral include lost jobs, a willingness for the federal and provincial Liberals not to lose upcoming elections, and sustained lobbying efforts by the accused corporation whose officials have donated large sums of funding to the Liberal Party."

So no I don't want a "do-over".
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #453 on: March 02, 2019, 01:56:47 pm »
You want to shoot the messenger?   Whoever it was shed light on political interference into a criminal prosecution.   Give them a medal.

because you 'support the message' - her expressed "truth"? Your expressed "interference" is interpreted on your part and the part of others seeking partisan gain; JWR advises she was never directed. Note: said "criminal prosecution" (as you say)... wasn't... rather, prosecution hadn't/hasn't yet commenced. More pointedly, the PPSC/DPPSC were not approached/communicated with.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #454 on: March 02, 2019, 01:59:23 pm »
I can picture it now, Justin and Butts sitting around campus getting high together while dreaming of legal pot while saving women and indigenous folks.

yours is an ignorant/stupid comment; notwithstanding (if one accepts your count) budgetary value/worth/interest... based upon, "the number of pages"!  ;D
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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #455 on: March 02, 2019, 01:59:31 pm »
You want to shoot the messenger?   Whoever it was shed light on political interference into a criminal prosecution.   Give them a medal.

Sorry, not quite that gullible. Need to know more about the messenger first.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #456 on: March 02, 2019, 02:14:46 pm »
I'm sure JWR or any AG would have written "The reasons for the deferral include lost jobs, a willingness for the federal and provincial Liberals not to lose upcoming elections, and sustained lobbying efforts by the accused corporation whose officials have donated large sums of funding to the Liberal Party."

So no I don't want a "do-over".

but... JWR has not written anything... or rather, as I understand/read, has not presented a written explanation to support her position. You're apparently attempting to deflect from my pointed request to you; particularly when you seemed so sure of yourself, here, try again:
great - you appear to have a missing piece! Many have noted an absence of the legal foundation JWR used to support her unwillingness to act to have the DPPSC re-evaluated. Please provide, as you say, "the basis of justice her decision relied upon"... one you call her "legal decision". Thanks in advance - waiting.......

and you come back again with the same/like unsupported claim/statement where you now say: "the accused corporation whose officials have donated large sums of funding to the Liberal Party."

I provided an Elections Canada accounting of improper contributions... what you called a "generous amount". Again, one company executive was charged for his personal actions to solicit individual employees to make political contributions - a total of 117K over 8 years (2004-2011)... contributions made to both the Liberal & Conservative parties, individual politicians and individual riding associations. I asked you if you have additional information beyond what I provided. Apparently you do not since you simply choose to repeat your unsubstantiated statement/claim.

Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #457 on: March 02, 2019, 03:39:48 pm »
This government puts veterans at a low priority. 

Yes, that's why they've increased the VAC budget by over a billion dollars in the last two fiscal years.

Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #458 on: March 02, 2019, 03:44:41 pm »
It seems that JWR was unwilling to answer at committee or before the senate when she was AG whether or not she even supported the existence of DPAs - if she was in contradiction with legal government policy and was unwilling to implement it, it was incumbent on her to resign.

Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #459 on: March 02, 2019, 04:03:03 pm »
It seems that JWR was unwilling to answer at committee or before the senate when she was AG whether or not she even supported the existence of DPAs - if she was in contradiction with legal government policy and was unwilling to implement it, it was incumbent on her to resign.
This argument makes zero sense:

1) No company is automatically entitled to DPA and the are good reasons why SNC does not qualify;
2) Telling a prosecutor that they can't proceed with criminal charges completely undermines the value of a DPA because the company has no incentive to negotiate anything;

IOW, she was implementing the law, as it is written, and was doing her job by refusing to interfere. Why on earth would she need to resign?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 04:09:16 pm by TimG »

Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #460 on: March 02, 2019, 04:11:02 pm »
This argument makes zero sense:

1) No company is automatically entitled to DPA and the are good reasons why SNC does not qualify;
2) Telling a prosecutor that they can't proceed with criminal charges completely undermines the value of a DPA because the company has no incentive to negotiate anything;

Considering that's not what I argued, I'd have to agree - that makes zero sense.  JWR was unwilling to testify to whether she'd EVER support the use of DPAs as AG either before the committee or before the Senate when she was still AG.

Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #461 on: March 02, 2019, 04:33:13 pm »
This argument makes zero sense:

1) No company is automatically entitled to DPA and the are good reasons why SNC does not qualify;
2) Telling a prosecutor that they can't proceed with criminal charges completely undermines the value of a DPA because the company has no incentive to negotiate anything;

IOW, she was implementing the law, as it is written, and was doing her job by refusing to interfere. Why on earth would she need to resign?

The main purpose of a DPA is to protect jobs and therefore SNC certainly does qualify. It is also to punish a corp. which has been found cheating without putting them out of business, so yes there is incentive for negotiation.

Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #462 on: March 02, 2019, 04:47:36 pm »
The main purpose of a DPA is to protect jobs and therefore SNC certainly does qualify. It is also to punish a corp. which has been found cheating without putting them out of business, so yes there is incentive for negotiation.
Then why does the law *explicitly state* that "national economic interest" must *not* be considered?

Quote
Factors not to consider

(3) Despite paragraph (2)(i), if the organization is alleged to have committed an offence under section 3 or 4 of the Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act, the prosecutor must not consider the national economic interest, the potential effect on relations with a state other than Canada or the identity of the organization or individual involved.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-179.html


More importantly, if a corporation knows it will not be charged because it has bribedpersuaded a sufficient number of Liberal party officials to overrule the prosecutor then it has no incentive to accept anything other than the minimum needed to comply with the law. i.e. proverbial slap on the wrist.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:01:02 pm by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #463 on: March 02, 2019, 04:57:46 pm »
Then why does the law *explicitly state* that "national economic interest" must *not* be considered?
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-179.html

In order for the prosecutor to enter into negotiations for a remediation agreement, the following conditions must be met:

    There is a reasonable prospect of conviction with respect to the offence;
    The impugned conduct did not cause serious bodily harm or death or injury to national defence or national security, and was not committed for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in association with, a criminal organization or terrorist group;
    Negotiating the agreement must be in the public interest and appropriate in the circumstances; and
    The Attorney General must consent to the negotiation of the agreement.


https://www.osler.com/en/blogs/risk/september-2018/deferred-prosecution-agreements-dpas-come-into-force-in-canada

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #464 on: March 02, 2019, 08:04:04 pm »
In order for the prosecutor to enter into negotiations for a remediation agreement, the following conditions must be met:

    There is a reasonable prospect of conviction with respect to the offence;
    The impugned conduct did not cause serious bodily harm or death or injury to national defence or national security, and was not committed for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in association with, a criminal organization or terrorist group;
    Negotiating the agreement must be in the public interest and appropriate in the circumstances; and
    The Attorney General must consent to the negotiation of the agreement.


https://www.osler.com/en/blogs/risk/september-2018/deferred-prosecution-agreements-dpas-come-into-force-in-canada

Irrelevant to TimG’s point...   political interference is not allowed by law.

A judge should decide on the legality, in my opinion.