Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 27207 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #330 on: February 27, 2019, 10:40:36 pm »
I donít think itís unclear....

Section 9 of the Conflict of Interest Act spells it out quite clearly...

It's not clear that said applies in this case - the cabinet serves at the PMs pleasure.  The situation the PM wanted to see happen is within the allowance of the law. 

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #331 on: February 27, 2019, 10:50:32 pm »
I donít think itís unclear....

Section 9 of the Conflict of Interest Act spells it out quite clearly...
But if you take that absolutely literally, no politician could ever speak to a colleague about any decision before it is made if that decision winds up benefiting anyone in any way. So they could never do their jobs.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #332 on: February 27, 2019, 10:54:44 pm »
surprised this lil' post was ignored - go figure!

- JWR was asked directly and pointedly if she ever received direction to defer the DPA... from either the PM, the PMO or the Clerk of the Privy Council. She replied NO.

- JWR emphasized 'keeping an open mind' is a key requirement for the role/position of AJ; accordingly, JWR was asked directly and pointedly if she had an open mind, showed an open mind, in evaluating her decision when/if new information or new context for prior information was presented to her. JWR refused to answer that question and instead deflected it towards the Director of the PPSC.

- JWR was repeatedly directly and pointedly asked why she never resigned over her concerns, why she never raised her concerns with the Ethics Commissionaire - she never once answered to this repeated questioning.

- JWR was asked if she ever formalized her initial decision - in what manner it was done and where it was made. JWR weakly and sheepishly replied... "I took copious notes"!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #333 on: February 27, 2019, 11:05:08 pm »
There's a grey area between providing information and applying pressure, and where you personally consider the line of inappropriate behaviour is crossed. Some would think there should be no discussion between the AG and her colleagues regarding a decision; others might think it's their job to make sure the AG is fully aware of the potential ramifications of every decision before it's made. It seems JWR is among the former and much of the rest of the party is in the latter group. So it's not so much a matter of believing one and not the other. It's just where you draw that line.

very succinct, very astute..... kinda like my repeated emphasis on the subjective interpretation of so-called "pressuring". Clearly, St. Jody couldn't work within typical, standard processes/channels:

Wilson-Raybould battled Bennett, other ministers over Indigenous rights framework

Wilson-Raybouldís regrettable legacy as justice minister

given St. Jody's well known difficulties in working with others and her failures on the job, the cabinet shuffle was appropriate, particularly with the legal background/reputation/capabilities of the now current AJ/Justice Minister, David Lametti
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #334 on: February 27, 2019, 11:09:52 pm »
There's a difference between influencing decisions to benefit your buddy and doing so to benefit your constituents. Trudeau telling JWR he's an MP in Quebec can be interpreted as working for the people who elected him.

Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #335 on: February 27, 2019, 11:11:30 pm »
Is it? It sounds to me more like you're reinforcing the fact it's her decision and making sure that's clear.

When you stress the implications of one side of the decision, you are trying to influence the decision. Like Cohen said today, when Tump says to you," that is a great looking tie, right". Obviously the correct answer is that it is a great looking tie.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #336 on: February 27, 2019, 11:34:34 pm »
I donít think itís unclear....

Section 9 of the Conflict of Interest Act spells it out quite clearly...

please, don't just drop a quote - surely, you can speak to your "clear" interpretations by specifically naming said public office holders and by specifically naming their private interests that have been furthered.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #337 on: February 27, 2019, 11:51:31 pm »
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

good on ya; surprised you went there! There's certainly a view that JWR is vindictive in her actions... only she can fully detail her rationale relative to her interpretation of being, as you say, 'a woman scorned'.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #338 on: February 27, 2019, 11:58:01 pm »
It's not clear that said applies in this case - the cabinet serves at the PMs pleasure.  The situation the PM wanted to see happen is within the allowance of the law.

I doubt anything the PM said was illegal, the real question is, was it ethical. If JWR felt she was pressured to do something she didn't think was ethical, she is did the right thing.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 12:00:37 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #339 on: February 28, 2019, 12:10:38 am »
Saving jobs in Quebec > Prosecuting a Corrupt company.
Just goes to show, Liberal or Tory, same old story.

more than on the jobs front (and the potential impact on ~9000 jobs across Canada), there's a concern for the viability of the company... either having it move its base to the UK or having it weakened to the point of take-over. As has been well documented its not the same company as when the (principally early 2000s) Libyan related offenses occurred... all the executive involved have been dispensed with long ago and significant restructuring has occurred. Perhaps you could offer a rationale as to what benefit would be gained in prosecuting the company today versus, for example, imposing significant fines and applying oversight regulations/constraints on its business pursuits in Canada.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #340 on: February 28, 2019, 08:18:34 am »
I doubt anything the PM said was illegal, the real question is, was it ethical. If JWR felt she was pressured to do something she didn't think was ethical, she is did the right thing.

Thereís actually no evidence she did the right thing, either.  She was quite happy to continue until she was Ďdemotedí.

Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #341 on: February 28, 2019, 09:04:36 am »
Thereís actually no evidence she did the right thing, either.  She was quite happy to continue until she was Ďdemotedí.
Exactly, she didnít do as requested so she got demoted. So I guess it wasnít really her decision after I all.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #342 on: February 28, 2019, 09:07:36 am »
Exactly, she didnít do as requested so she got demoted. So I guess it wasnít really her decision after I all.

But she didn't get demoted.  There are no junior ministers in the Trudeau government.  Where she sits in cabinet and whether she sits there at all is up to Trudeau.  She threw a fit, and threw her own party under the bus.

Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #343 on: February 28, 2019, 09:17:51 am »
But she didn't get demoted.  There are no junior ministers in the Trudeau government.  Where she sits in cabinet and whether she sits there at all is up to Trudeau.  She threw a fit, and threw her own party under the bus.



You used the word demoted. She just provided a little of that transparency Justin talked about so much. People can decide for themselves who got thrown.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 09:34:47 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #344 on: February 28, 2019, 09:47:15 am »
You used the word demoted. She just provided a little of that transparency Justin talked about so much. People can decide for themselves who got thrown.

That's why I put it in ''.  She obviously considered it a demotion.