Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 27435 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #300 on: February 27, 2019, 03:19:25 pm »
WELL!!! Who's watching TV?

JWR stated that JT pressured her to offer SNC a DPA. Stressing it would hurt the Quebec Liberals in the election.

Saving jobs in Quebec > Prosecuting a Corrupt company.

Anxiously awaiting Liberal Fanboys claiming she's a liar.

Interesting this happens on the same day Micheal Cohen testifies in the US regarding the behaviour of one Donald Trump.

I've been watching TV but the Cohen thing is more interesting. I'll catch up to the other one later when it's done. Scheer must be drooling over her opening statements though.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #301 on: February 27, 2019, 03:25:26 pm »
I've been watching TV but the Cohen thing is more interesting. I'll catch up to the other one later when it's done. Scheer must be drooling over her opening statements though.

I don't really give a crap about Scheer...   this is about the PM and his staff trying to influence a prosecution for political reasons. 

From what I've heard, the PM should resign.  JWR has more ethics in her little finger than the entire PMO.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #302 on: February 27, 2019, 03:31:41 pm »
I don't really give a crap about Scheer...   this is about the PM and his staff trying to influence a prosecution for political reasons. 

From what I've heard, the PM should resign.  JWR has more ethics in her little finger than the entire PMO.

Yep, from what I have seen so far it's not a great day for Justin.
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Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #303 on: February 27, 2019, 05:14:05 pm »
Yep, from what I have seen so far it's not a great day for Justin.

Now I am going to try be fair and objective. Of course you are right. Having listened to and still listening to her replies she felt inappropriately pressured.

I will tell you what though. My major concern is the head of the Privy Council. It was his role to tell Justin Trudeau to cool it. He had a role as the neutral top civil servant to say to Justin, stop you are going over the line. He did not. In fact he enabled and empowered the PM to continue pushing.

Here is the thing.  Jody R is dead on correct. As AG you can not under any circumstance consider political considerations when determining appropriate plea bargains or sentences. Everything she said about the AG's role and my criticism of the Privy Council head I stated yesterday are the same and I would say every lawyer would understand this. Its basic law. the AG can only consider the merits of the evidence when deciding a sentence or plea.

No I do not think its inappropriate any PM or Minister OTHER than the AG worry about political fall-out when deciding policies or what kind of legislation to pass. However not  as to  pleas with specific prosecutions. In regards to  law in general, yes broad policy considerations are the domain of the Minister of Justice, but not for a specific prosecution  when the Minister then acts as AG.

The attempt by the Liberals at the inquiry today to say deferred prosecution agreements are normal is not and was not the issue. The issue was communicating to the AG as to how to use the deferred prosecution agreement in specific regard to the Lanalin case. That was the issue. The Liberals tried to redefine public interest as concern that if Lanalin did not get a certain plea it could cause political fall out, i.e., loss of jobs and that concern is a legitimate consideration to build a plea. No its not.

That's not the AG's criteria for consideration of a deferred prosecution agreement. It can't be because it does not consider the merits or evidence of the case.

As well a deferred prosecution agreement which is simply a reworded term for a  plea bargain for a corporation  is something the current Liberals want to paint as legitimate. No, its not legitimate if its not used properly. Its the context in which it is used that makes it legally appropriate or not. Today the Liberals  tried to argue its  used in other countries and so its non problematic. No. Plea bargains of any kind can not lend to the appearance of providing favourable treatment. Plea bargains are used because courts are over-loaded with cases or because they properly match a sentence to the nature of the crime committed.

Plea bargains still must follow the sentence parameters of the criminal code as well. This latest  deferred prosecution agreement was specifically created and passed by hiding it in an Omnibus bill to avoid open debate in Parliament as to what grounds it would be used for, before it was used.

Arguing as the Liberals now do that its a legitimate consideration to consider sentencing predicated on how many people might lose jobs if you find their companyis  guilty is bullshit.

Public interest can not be advanced by allowing corporations to feel because they employ people, they can expect  a different standard of behaviour and sentencing in society.


No public interest can not be defined as what gets the PM re-elected.

The head of the Privy Council had the role to step in and say to Trudeau-Sir you have a right to be concerned as to the negative fall-out over Lanalin and consider it in cabinet discussions but you can not change laws or force your AG to influence a prosecution to give favourable treatment to a company  because you fear losing votes in Quebec. Your role as a partisan head of government can not over-ride the role of the AG prescribed to her by law. If you want to pass legislation to undo certain crimes and make them non existent, you can do tht, but you can't influence a prosecution outcome.


I see no evidence of the Privy Council head warning Trudeau to stop.  Why not? Well this arrogant prick told the committee he felt it appropriate both he and the PM pressure the AG.

I think Trudeau showed poor judgement and immaturity in how he handled this matter and should have walked away once told by Jody R she could not interfere. He did not and he must b e held accountable. She could not have been any clearer.  There was undue political interference against the AG.

HI can not help but wonder, if the Privy Council head acted non partisan and told Trudeau to stop, would he have continued as he did? I believe it could be argued the Privy Council led Trudeau to believe he could keep pressuring the AG and that may have been one factor in the questionable behaviour. Non-partisan advice Trudeau needed was not there.

Of course Butts pressured the AG we well  but Butt's  job was to cover the PM's ass at all costs and laws are an inconvenience to him... if they would get in the way of reelecting Justin which Butts felt it did in this specific case.

The AG was 100% correct on this one and the Privy Council needs to be fired immediately and Trudeau looks like he fired Jody R when she would not compromise her role as AG to placate Trudeau's political concerns as to Lavalin.

As for Trudeau people in the next election have to decide is this the kind of leader they want Do you want your laws superceded by partisan motives or not? He has done it with our immigration laws, with Kadr, with his Christmas trip with the Aga Kahn, now this. This won't stop. Trudeau is not one used to being told no.

Trudeau acting like a spoiled vengeful **** is no surprise  The lack of safeguard to curtail the PM from engaging in this behaviour by the Privy Council head does surprise me. He needs to be tossed on his ass.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 05:31:05 pm by Rue »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #304 on: February 27, 2019, 05:29:13 pm »
Considering whether to prosecute or not based on how many jobs are at stake is exactly what the DPA is all about. Sorry if you didn't understand that. Inappropriate "Arm twisting" on that issue is what is being questioned now. No precedent so far as it is a new legislation.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #305 on: February 27, 2019, 05:39:51 pm »
I don't really give a crap about Scheer...   this is about the PM and his staff trying to influence a prosecution for political reasons. 

From what I've heard, the PM should resign.  JWR has more ethics in her little finger than the entire PMO.

I'll wager to guess that Justin is done, one way or the other.  Sunny ways...

Butts at least was able to get out before the **** hit the fan for him.  As I said before, he learned well from his mentor Dalton McGuinty when to get out.  These two had dreams of social justice, but you can't have social justice while trying to bully your colleagues around.

JWR's accusations are very serious, it sounds like harassment and reprisal from the PMO/PM.  She could probably sue if she wanted to.

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #306 on: February 27, 2019, 05:52:40 pm »
;D you've gone from "pressuring" to "badgering" to now... "pleading" - oh my! Again, other than an anonymous sourced G&M article and your subjective determination on what constitutes pressuring badgering pleading to the level that your sensitive fee-fees just can't take it any more... ya gots nuthin, ya gots diddly! Perhaps (tomorrow) we'll see if your subjectivity aligns with... measures up to... that of St. Jody!

Is the waldo on the Liberal Party payroll or something?
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #307 on: February 27, 2019, 06:03:57 pm »
Quote
Inappropriate "Arm twisting" on that issue is what is being questioned now. No precedent so far as it is a new legislation.

Nonsense.  Political interference in prosecutions is not allowed under the Conflict of Interest Act and is certainly nothing new.

Unless you meant the DPAs...   but that has very little to do with this, other than the PMO trying to get one for SNC-L.  But whether it was a DPA, or any other thing for SNC-L to avoid prosecution really makes no difference. 

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #308 on: February 27, 2019, 06:04:41 pm »
JWR has impressed me very much. She's is one tough woman, they couldn't get her on any question and she wouldn't let anyone spin her words.  She's a great lawyer it seems.  Hard to trip up a former lawyer and attorney general of canada on the "witness stand".

Very odd to see the CPC and NDP committee members clearly on her side during questioning, while the Liberal MP's asking JWR questions were out to destroy her and undermine what she was saying.  I guess we know why she's no longer in cabinet now.  She has no confidence in the PM or cabinet it seems. 

I wonder if she'll even stay in the party, i suppose it all depends on what happens to Justin.  The country will rally around JWR, while her colleagues will be torn between standing with her & the public sentiment or with the PM and go down with a sinking ship.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #309 on: February 27, 2019, 06:12:43 pm »
JWR's accusations are very serious, it sounds like harassment and reprisal from the PMO/PM.  She could probably sue if she wanted to.

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #310 on: February 27, 2019, 06:13:41 pm »
Is the waldo on the Liberal Party payroll or something?

why such personalization? Why are you trying to marginalize the waldo?
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #311 on: February 27, 2019, 06:16:45 pm »
the waldo

Referencing oneself in the third person?

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #312 on: February 27, 2019, 06:46:40 pm »
I'll wager to guess that Justin is done, one way or the other.  Sunny ways...

;D ah yes, ever the 'over-the-top' guy, you are!

- c'mon man, JWR was asked directly and pointedly if she ever received direction to defer the DPA... from either the PM, the PMO or the Clerk of the Privy Council. She replied NO.

- JWR emphasized 'keeping an open mind' is a key requirement for the role/position of AJ; accordingly, JWR was asked directly and pointedly if she had an open mind, showed an open mind, in evaluating her decision when/if new information or new context for prior information was presented to her. JWR refused to answer that question and instead deflected it towards the Director of the PPSC.

- JWR was repeatedly directly and pointedly asked why she never resigned over her concerns, why she never raised her concerns with the Ethics Commissionaire - she never once answered to this repeated questioning.

- JWR was asked if she ever formalized her initial decision - in what manner it was done and where it was made. JWR weakly and sheepishly replied... "I took copious notes"!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #313 on: February 27, 2019, 06:47:23 pm »
Referencing oneself in the third person?

why such personalization? Why are you trying to marginalize the waldo?  ;D
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #314 on: February 27, 2019, 06:49:53 pm »
Referencing oneself in the third person?
Oooh...and referencing that third person reference in the fourth person! I like.