Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38483 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #270 on: February 22, 2019, 11:11:41 am »
But you didn't hear the supposed head of the Civil Service who is not supposed to comment on political issues or legal issues doing just that both. You didn't hear this sphincter muscle of a Privy Council head make the most idiotic and brain stunned comments of the year with his fear of assassination warning. Even someone like you would know if you felt there was an imminent threat the last thing you do is broadcast it loud to give some crackpot the idea to do it...or wait no you didn't hear that. You didn't hear the shrill, arrogant, subjective spittle come out of his mouth.

Clerk of the Privy Council Michael Wernick is hardly the partisan your agenda speaks to! He's worked within the governments of 3 Prime Ministers; during his testimony he openly praised Harper and related legislation Harper Conservatives put through. The comments you're whining about were a part of his opening statement and fully apropos in regards the state of political discourse today. Quite matter-of-fact, Sheer Conservatives are purposely fueling conditions to push alt-right zeolots forward - look no further than the jackazz Scheer meeting the trucker convoy. Despicable signage and verbiage coming forward during that event is exactly what Wernick was speaking to...

...that escaped you but  the Privy Council head with his head shoved up his Liberal BUTT that you missed. Clearly this pricy council head needs to be fired. He is unable to perform in a neutral manner and showed a complete and vested interest in defending Trudeau and Butt which was a direct conflict of interest not to mention this anal gland can not determine what is and what is not undue influence and is strictly limited to saying what he heard, now what the intent of what he heard was or its effect.

Wernick responded to the questions he was asked - you simply don't like his answers. Perhaps you can explain how to answer those very direct and pointed questions... in a "neutral manner"... one where the Opposition members are satisfied and your feefees aren't hurt!  ;D

This idiot not only passed off a subjective opinion of intent as to the words off as a legal opinion but pronounced it as if it was his role to do so. That you did not notice.

citation request
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Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #271 on: February 22, 2019, 11:56:34 am »
JWR is set to testify before the justice committee some time next week. I' ll wait until we hear from her directly before I jump to any conclusion. I do wonder why, if she had been inappropriately pressured, she didn't report that to the ethics commissioner. I also wonder if the prospect of the loss of ~9000 jobs in PQ if SNC went under was presented to her and she had doubts as to whether that was appropriate or not, so simply stepped aside. Hopefully she will be able to speak openly next week.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #272 on: February 22, 2019, 01:28:45 pm »
But you didn't hear the supposed head of the Civil Service who is not supposed to comment on political issues or legal issues doing just that both.
You didn't hear this sphincter muscle of a Privy Council head make the most idiotic and brain stunned comments of the year with his fear of assassination warning. Even someone like you would know if you felt
there was an imminent threat the last thing you do is broadcast it loud to give some crackpot the idea to do it...or wait no you didn't hear that.
You didn't hear the shrill, arrogant, subjective spittle come out of his mouth.

I think that just about sums up your post.

Yes, I heard the entire Justice Committee session with Wernick, and I also heard the usual talking heads try and take him down. They failed miserably, because they are the ones with the over the top rhetoric. Yes, he did comment on things during his opening remarks (which is why the f**k people are given the chance to make opening remarks) on things like the state of political discourse and the comment a Parliamentarian made. He didn't name the scumbag, but let me elaborate.

Senator David Tkachuk, another of Stephen Harper's idiotic appointees said on the lawn of Parliament to a group of truckers that they should "roll over liberals". He has since even refused to apologize for that remark. That shitbag terrorist should not be collecting a huge government wage, or even be allowed to roam the streets. It is over the top rhetoric like that that destroys the fabric of the nation. Has Sheer removed his sorry ass from caucus yet, or is he an enabler?

The other item the talking head idiots harp on is his remarks about the Globe article. What Wernick said was the article contains errors, unfounded speculation and, in some cases, is simply defamatory. That is nowhere like calling the press the enemy of the people, he was commenting specifically on an article.

Offline Omni

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #273 on: February 22, 2019, 02:01:30 pm »
Scheer has his own PR troubles since he spoke at that same rally with the likes of Faith Goldy and the "United WE Roll/Yellow Vester" types.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #274 on: February 22, 2019, 04:36:40 pm »
You do understand Lisa Raitt is in the opposition party and is elected and has a function to engage in precisely what she was doing question....on behalf of all Canadians...that escaped you but  the Privy Council head with his head shoved up his Liberal BUTT that you missed.

Lisa Raitt was implying that Wernick was doing something nefarious by meeting with SNC-Lavelin. She said it was "high unusual, highly unusual, that he would be meeting with an individual company". Yes she repeated highly unusual twice to emphasize her over the top rhetoric.

He replied that he meets with lots of individuals, companies, labor unions, NGOs, etc. as a matter of course, nothing unusual.

I can't find a transcript, but you can view the meeting on ParlVu TV, Raitt starts about 12:24pm. She is an over the top partisan extremist, and was attacking a civil servant.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #275 on: February 22, 2019, 08:20:21 pm »
Yes but also second highest ?

That list makes me hate Democracy.

Democracy booted them out when they got arrogant and started doing bad/dumb ****.  That list makes me love democracy.
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Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #276 on: February 23, 2019, 12:39:46 am »


Senator David Tkachuk, another of Stephen Harper's idiotic appointees said on the lawn of Parliament to a group of truckers that they should "roll over liberals". He has since even refused to apologize for that remark. That shitbag terrorist should not be collecting a huge government wage, or even be allowed to roam the streets. It is over the top rhetoric like that that destroys the fabric of the nation. Has Sheer removed his sorry ass from caucus yet, or is he an enabler?

Speaking of over-the-top...


If Omni, Impact, and the_squid ever had a love child, I would be him

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #277 on: February 23, 2019, 01:29:54 am »
Trudeau already has a really low approval rating

waldo full disclosure:

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #278 on: February 23, 2019, 01:39:01 am »
waldo full disclosure:

Right, for a sitting PM not yet done their first term that's a low rating.  The others aren't the PM, and have more votes in the "undecided" column because people don't know as much about these guys yet, especially Singh.  More people approve of Trudeau but more people disapprove of him also, as per your image.

And if you ask me, all 3 of these guys are complete dolts and aren't fit to lead this country.  I hope to pete for a minority gov this time.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #279 on: February 23, 2019, 01:49:05 am »
apparently... the waldo full disclosure doesn't sit well with the guy who keeps selectively harping about approval ratings - go figure!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #280 on: February 23, 2019, 01:25:09 pm »
if you accept (Veterans Affairs) is a demotion, you might also need to factor criticisms against Ms. Wilson-Raybould for her handling of assisted-dying & impaired-driving legislation and her publicly expressed frustrations over the pace/approach of (her) government's handling of so-called 'reconciliation'...

some, certainly not the waldo, r-sayin' JWR went off the res... isn't that culturally insensitive?
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #281 on: February 23, 2019, 10:51:31 pm »
bastardo!!! How dare he attempt to refute the anonymous sourced basis of Ms. kimmy's wishful-thinking(™)
Quote
Clerk of the Privy Council Michael Wernick, testifying at the justice committee today, was referring to a Feb. 7 Globe and Mail report that touched off a political scandal and triggered the resignation of cabinet minister Jody Wilson-Raybould and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's principal secretary, Gerry Butts.

"I'm here to say to you that the Globe and Mail article contains errors, unfounded speculation and, in some cases, is simply defamatory," he said.

"I din't do nuffin'!" declares man suspected of doing something.  Sounds like an Onion headline.

We all heard Wernick's denials of wrongdoing, and his theatrical grandstanding about partisanship and assassinations and so on.  But when you delve into what Mr Wernick had to say about the specifics of his conversations with JWR, it's a lot less emphatic:

Quote
In blunt testimony before the justice committee Thursday, Clerk of the Privy Council Michael Wernick said he called the then-justice minister and attorney general on Dec. 19, 2018 to discuss various issues — including the option of a remediation agreement that would serve as an alternative to prosecution for the Quebec-based global engineering company, which is facing bribery and fraud charges related to contracts in Libya.

During that call, Wernick said, he spoke of the implications of prosecuting the company for employees, suppliers and communities. He said he told Wilson-Raybould that the prime minister and "a lot of her colleagues" were anxious about what they were hearing and reading in business press — articles warning that the company could close down or move if criminal proceedings went ahead.

"I am quite sure the minister felt pressured to get it right, and part of my conversation with her on Dec. 19 was conveying context that there were a lot of people worried about what would happen ... the consequences not for her, the consequences for the workers, and the communities and the suppliers," he told MPs probing the scandal now engulfing the Liberal government.

Wernick insisted he did not cross any line in his exchanges with Wilson-Raybould.

"I can tell you with complete assurance that my view of those conversations is that they were within the boundaries of what's lawful and appropriate. I was informing the minister of context. She may have another view of the conversation, but that's something the ethics commissioner could sort out," he said.

In the end, Wernick said, the matter may boil down to an interpretation of what constitutes 'pressure'.

"I think the matter may come down to the ethics commissioner's view on a conversation between two people, between what was sent and what was received. And I think the ethics commissioner is the appropriate person to decide what was undue and what was inappropriate," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lametti-justice-committee-snc-lavalin-1.5027617

He's not denying that JWR was being pressured to overrule the PPSC on the matter. He's just denying that the pressure was unlawful or unethical.

Quote
Wernick revealed this week that he raised the issue of SNC-Lavalin during a Dec. 19 conversation with Wilson-Raybould. He conveyed to her that the prime minister and others were “quite anxious” about the possible economic consequences if SNC-Lavalin were found guilty. That is understandable. Lavalin is a major employer in Quebec. But the law bars prosecutors from considering the national economic interest when they consider offering deferred prosecution to companies charged with bribing foreign officials. Wernick employed a too-big-to fail rhetoric, expressing concern that the board might decide to “close, sell” the company which “would have consequences for 9,000 Canadians, plus the suppliers, plus the pensioners, plus all the communities in which the company’s active.” And the company’s “share price had tanked,” he said.

In all of those conversations “there was no inappropriate pressure put on the minister at any time,” Wernick said.  Even more risible was a comment he’d make later in a scrum with reporters when asked why he’d continue to contact the attorney general three months after a decision had been made: “Because the decision had not already been made,” he said.

We’re talking Grand-Master-Jedi-level gaslighting here. Clearly the “No” registered on the SNC-Lavalin DPA on Sept. 4, Sept. 17, Oct. 7, Dec. 19 did not register as an actual or final decision.
As for pressure? She must be imagining things! After all, the decision was Wilson-Raybould’s alone to make. And the insurance kicker:  If Wilson-Raybould did feel she was being pressured to override the decision to prosecute, it was up to her to protest to the very office applying pressure, or resign. If she didn’t, well, it’s nobody’s fault but hers.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-many-times-did-jody-wilson-raybould-need-to-say-no/



Trudeau and Wernick and Butts and who knows who else all assure us that they told her it was her decision alone to make, but the actual decision had been made on September 4, and they continued to badger about it for 3 months afterwards.  They may have assured her that only she could say yes, but clearly they also weren't going to take "no" for an answer.  And after 3 months of getting tired with her not giving her the answer they wanted to hear, they found themselves a more pliable Attorney General in January.


 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #282 on: February 24, 2019, 01:15:21 am »
Trudeau and Wernick and Butts and who knows who else all assure us that they told her it was her decision alone to make, but the actual decision had been made on September 4, and they continued to badger about it for 3 months afterwards.

badger?  ;D Let the waldo continue your education! Said initial PPSC 'decision' isn't binding until the actual prosecution court case begins - notwithstanding SNC-Lavalin's own litigation before the court (yet to be heard) asking to overturn said initial PPSC 'decision'.

as I said, the AJ role is not investigatory; rather, it relies upon an information/advisory conduit flow - a 2-way flow! As I also said, the AJ role has a discretionary aspect to it; one that allows the AJ discretion in choosing to move forward with any respective prosecutions - even one involving a DPA!

accepting to your naivete, riddle me this: at any time, what was stopping JWR from bringing the (perceived) "pressure" concerns forward either internally or through formal (Ethics Commissioner) channels? Why did JWR accept the new cabinet posting to Veteran Affairs/Department of Defence - why didn't she refuse the assignment and resign then... why wait a full month before resigning from the new cabinet positions?

c'mon Ms. kimmy! Isn't your (perceived) 'pressure'... isn't your declared 'badgering', subjective Ms. kimmy wishful-thinking(™)  determinations - yes? 

Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #283 on: February 24, 2019, 12:39:11 pm »
Yes, I think 3 months of asking her to overrule the PPSC director is "badgering".  If you don't like "badgering", there are other descriptions being used. "Brow-beating" is one that has been applied.

Trudeau and Wernick (and no doubt Butts and others) were asking her to consider potential job losses and economic fallout if SNC-Lavalin were prosecuted.  "we take very seriously our responsibility of standing up for jobs," Trudeau said. "the consequences for the workers, and the communities and the suppliers," Wernick said.

But the Liberals' own legislation makes clear that those factors are explicitly not to be taken into consideration.  That they kept reminding her about this in urging her to overrule Ms Roussel makes clear that this wasn't really about "respecting the rule of law" at all.

While the language of the new DPA law was written to avoid the possibility of powerful corporations using their clout to avoid prosecution, that's exactly what SNC-Lavalin is doing here.

And again, the Public Prosecution Service is supposed to be independent of political interference... so why were the PM and his senior aides badgering brow-beating the Attorney General to overrule the PPSC director's ruling anyway?  Why is David Lametti now floating thought-balloons on how to get around the PPSC on this matter?

Trudeau telling JWR that the decision was hers alone was clearly based on the expectation that she'd do what they wanted her to.  It's Lionel Hutz explaining "the truth" to Marge:



 -k
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #284 on: February 24, 2019, 02:28:34 pm »
they continued to badger about it for 3 months afterwards

From what I understand from the testimony was an off the cuff remark in a meeting dedicated to something else, a meeting that Wernick didn't attend so we have zero information so far, and a phone call. That is not badgering, it is a part of normal everyday communications for the government. Who said that Minister of Justice and Attorney General is a stress free job? These are real issues, facing real Canadians, and important to be discussed.