Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38352 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #180 on: February 17, 2019, 02:34:04 pm »
Agreed, these omnibus budget bills have to stop. Regardless if the deferred prosecution agreement has merit, or not, the fact is it was not sufficiently examined by Parliament.
Along the same topic of practical things to do, this op has an interesting suggestion:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-after-the-snc-lavalin-affair-we-must-strip-the-influence-of-political/

Quote
We need to seriously scale back the influence of political staffers and legislate what the parameters of their jobs really are. Unlike in the United States where almost all government jobs are political appointments, Canada comes out of the British tradition of having a non-partisan civil service that implements the vision of the party in power.

Over time, Ottawa has taken on the American example of concentrating power in political advisers, while Britain has sensibly restrained the takeover of government by partisans. In Britain, each minister is capped at having two political staffers, also known as special advisers.
...
We could cut the number of staffers in half and Ottawa would run better than it does now. There should also be a formal, publicly acknowledged policy process so Canadians can trust that the system of democracy is working from within and decisions that might shape the future of the country for decades are not being made by a cloistered elite.
The fact that the UK has already gone down this road makes it more than simply one guy's POV.

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #181 on: February 18, 2019, 10:18:51 am »
well... again within reason, within practicality. The earlier link I provided does offer some level of detail - certainly not, I expect, to the level of transparency you're implying
Not even close.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #182 on: February 18, 2019, 02:34:15 pm »
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5023675

Senior Trudeau PMO staffers resign. 

Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #183 on: February 18, 2019, 02:43:18 pm »
Gets interestinger and interestinger.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #184 on: February 18, 2019, 02:46:22 pm »
Senior Trudeau PMO staffers resign.

Does the Parliamentary committee have to ability to make him testify?

Offline poochy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #185 on: February 18, 2019, 05:49:50 pm »
If I was betting it would still be on a liberal majority in Oct,  because liberals are 'nice', they don't lie, they don't do slimy things, and they don't work for corporations.  #Canada 

So nice in fact that probably the most powerful man in the country just resigned and left an extremely lucrative position just so he could help out his pal Justin and also defend himself, because as the PM has been demonstrating, they haven't been allowed to come up with any explanations for this allegation over the last 1-2 weeks.

Christ, what a good guy.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #186 on: February 18, 2019, 07:01:30 pm »
Butts was principal advisor to ex-ON Premier Dalton McGuinty.  McGuinty resigned very quickly just as the gas plant scandal started hitting the fan so no skin off McGuinty's nose ever came.  That was a few years after Butts left, but maybe Butts learned from him when to get out when you know you're caught in a ****-sandwich?

On another odd note i just read.  Gerald Butts has the highest net worth of any current or former Canadian politician at 23 million (US!).  His dad was a coal miner & mom a nurse.  Harper is worth 5 million to compare, Butt's whole career he's either been in the provincial government, federal government, or CEO of the non-profit World Wildlife Fund (WWF Canada).  How does one make 23 million from those jobs?  Maybe the same way you charge the taxpayers 126k for moving expenses?  Apparently he made about 500k a year at WWF!?  Morally how does one accept that kind of pay from a charity?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 07:26:28 pm by Poonlight Graham »
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #187 on: February 18, 2019, 07:29:04 pm »
Does the Parliamentary committee have to ability to make him testify?

The committee that just last week refused to include him on the witness list, despite requests from both the NDP and Conservatives that he appear?  I'm pretty sure that the Parliamentary committee has no interest in making Mr Butts testify.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline JMT

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #188 on: February 18, 2019, 07:33:07 pm »
On another odd note i just read.  Gerald Butts has the highest net worth of any current or former Canadian politician at 23 million (US!).

That can't be right, unless Paul Martin is suddenly worth far less than he was - he was a hectomillionaire.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #189 on: February 18, 2019, 08:02:35 pm »
no - your wishful thinking distinction is anything but meaningless!

"Are you directing me?" is just lawyerese for "is that an order?"  ...and the circumstances that would prompt such a question demonstrate that pressure had indeed been applied to Ms Wilson-Raybould, by the Prime Minister himself. His own words, as reported by you, prove the point.

you mean the Ms. kimmy wishful thinking scenario - that one? You mean the myriad of lawful discussions that apparently (collectively) included a provincial premier, cabinet members, cabinet staff, relevant departmental staff, lobbyists, etc.? Those lawful meetings?

More evidence of the pressure applied to Ms Wilson-Raybould.

keep wishing... and definitely not related to an acknowledgment/acceptance of your wishful thinking, I suggest you read my earlier reply - to you!

...and while the Shawcross doctrine might be a general principle governing the attorney general's role in considering the public interest in pursuing a prosecution,  but the text of the specific law under question-- the Deferred Prosecution Agreements that the Liberals themselves instituted just a month before this intense lobbying effort on behalf of SNC-Lavalin--  explicitly state that the economic clout of the defendant was not to be taken into consideration when considering whether to offer a DPA.

So, while perhaps the intense lobbying on behalf of SNC-Lavalin by the PM, the PMO, the Premier of Quebec, and others, may have been lawful... Jody Wilson-Raybould was not allowed to consider the economic impact of prosecuting SNC-Lavalin, even if she wished to.

As well, something you yourself pointed out earlier in the thread:  JWR isn't supposed to have the power to control the PPSC's decisions anyway. So even if she had wished to intervene on behalf of SNC-Lavalin, she was not, according to the rules, allowed to. The PM and others urging her to intervene on behalf of SNC-Lavalin were hoping she would do something illegal.

Kathleen Roussel was correct in determining SNC-Lavalin was not eligible for a DPA.

JWR was correct in not attempting to interfere or overrule Kathleen Rousel's decision.

Those urging JWR to interfere on behalf of SNC-Lavalin were in the wrong.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #190 on: February 18, 2019, 08:22:19 pm »
So nice in fact that probably the most powerful man in the country just resigned and left an extremely lucrative position just so he could help out his pal Justin and also defend himself, because as the PM has been demonstrating, they haven't been allowed to come up with any explanations for this allegation over the last 1-2 weeks.

Christ, what a good guy.

good on ya, poochy! Good on ya. There are several more than capable people available to take on the 'Principal Secretary' role; Butts sees his higher calling... free of the PMO shackles... ready to concentrate on the 2019 election.  ;D

Quote from: Gerald Butts, Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister
Recently, anonymous sources have alleged that I pressured the former Attorney General, The Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould, to assist SNC-Lavalin with being considered for a deferred prosecution agreement. I categorically deny the accusation that I or anyone else in his office pressured Ms. Wilson-Raybould. We honoured the unique role of the Attorney General. At all times, I and those around me acted with integrity and a singular focus on the best interests of all Canadians.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #191 on: February 18, 2019, 08:24:58 pm »
Those urging JWR to interfere on behalf of SNC-Lavalin were in the wrong.

Ms. kimmy wishful thinking(™)

Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #192 on: February 18, 2019, 09:05:30 pm »
Ms. kimmy wishful thinking(™)

You keep saying that, yet you are unable to dispute that the very text of the DPA legislation specifies that the economic consequences were NOT to be taken into account in determining whether to negotiate a DPA.

And, per your earlier contribution to the thread, the Minister of Justice is NOT supposed to tell the PPSC what to do anyway.

Kathleen Roussel was correct in determining SNC-Lavalin was not eligible for a DPA.

JWR was correct in not attempting to interfere or overrule Kathleen Rousel's decision.

Those urging JWR to interfere on behalf of SNC-Lavalin were in the wrong.



So anyway, what are the waldo's thoughts on Gerald "Don't call me Seymour" Butts resigning?   What are you hearing through the channels on this?  Maybe he's been shuffled because he doesn't speak French? Hey, maybe he's been shuffled because they were unhappy with the assisted dying legislation. Maybe he's been shuffled because he wasn't a team player-- "it's all about Gerald."  Maybe he's been shuffled to to Veterans Affairs because it's a very important portfolio and they need to make sure it gets done right. Maybe he quit because he's no longer in position to push the pace of indigenous reconciliation?  What's the word?  What are the whispers?



 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #193 on: February 18, 2019, 09:55:11 pm »
The committee that just last week refused to include him on the witness list, despite requests from both the NDP and Conservatives that he appear?  I'm pretty sure that the Parliamentary committee has no interest in making Mr Butts testify.

And maybe they have good reason for not wanting him to testity?  And maybe Butts knew he didn't want to testify either, but not testifying would be damaging to him and the party?

It will all come out i hope.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #194 on: February 18, 2019, 09:57:07 pm »
That can't be right, unless Paul Martin is suddenly worth far less than he was - he was a hectomillionaire.

Might not have included former politicians.  This list has Harper on it so I assumed it did:

https://toprichests.com/top-10-richest-politicians-of-canada/
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley