Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 11083 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #675 on: March 07, 2019, 04:01:23 pm »
Who became PM ?  With a majority government ?

Did you miss that part ?

That would account for my surprise.  The last job.

Wait - who the hell are you anyway ?

A showman managed to get elected down south as well. Says more about the electorate than the candidate.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #676 on: March 07, 2019, 04:07:55 pm »
Really lame argument...   it's no different than the arguments by people who state Trudeau is a "drama teacher".   You're using the same terrible argument now that it will back your own viewpoint.

Historically, Drama teachers, who ride off their father's coattails do not make good leaders. Of course, there are always exceptions...
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #677 on: March 07, 2019, 04:20:15 pm »
Really lame argument...

Then how would you rate the comment I was responding to?

What stood out to me was that the person they chose to replace JWR as AG is cabinet-rookie David Lametti, who is a Montreal MP.

Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #678 on: March 07, 2019, 06:03:07 pm »
1-Trudeau stated at the beginning of his interview today he did not know JWR had come to a final opinion.

15 minutes later in response to a question from a Globe & Mail Reporter he told JWR to consider and I quote: “revisiting the issue with a second legal opinion”.

2-Trudeau today stated he did mention to JWR that as Member of Parliament of Gatineau he was extremely concerned about loss of jobs in his riding.

Mr. Butt said he had no knowledge the aboivehappened. This coming from the man whose job it is to identify and protect Trudeau from any adverse political developments that would get him re-elected.

3-Mr. Trudeau raised many times that his concern was loss of jobs in Quebec and it was his job to raise that issue to JWR.

Firstly,  because of his conflict of interest he should not have raised it with her.Secondly in her context as AG he was never allowed to raise it with her. Thirdly and most importantly the law Mr. Trudeau passed allowing deferred prosecution agreements does not and never stated loss of jobs is a criteria for granting a deferred prosecution agreement. I explained that in a previous email but of course the Liberals on this forum select only that which they want to read and hear just like their dear leader. You can read the law yourself, loss of jobs is not a legal consideration for determining whether a deferred prosecution agreement should be considered. That's not speculation, conjecture, its called law. Waldo, Omni, they can ignore the law, but it exists and isn't speculated by me.  Trudeau insisted that law be passed so how does he not know what the conditions for getting a dpa are and would they keep raising a consideration JWR could not consider as part of the dpa? Fourthly what proof does Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Butt or anyone else have, that Lavalin would lose jobs? When asked Butt said he had no proof. When Mr. Trudeau was asked today he said he had a “variety of sources”. That’s interesting because when asked to produce him today he would not answer and when asked to mention one source, he could not. There are no sources.

Lavalin by the way has a head office in Quebec City. They borrowed 1.5 billion from the Caisse Populaires in Quebec as I stated earlier with an express agreement that if they move out of Quebec before 2024 they must pay back the loan in full plus a penalty. Someone tell Waldo that is a fact not conjecture. Tell him what is conjecture is stating there would be a job loss in Quebec.

Speculation about loss of jobs is from a spin by Lavalin to the Liberal government that if they are criminally sentenced, they would not be allowed federal government contracts for 10 years and that is where they would lose their anticipated future revenue. That is a false and nonsensical speculation. Their fear of a 10  year ban comes from the fact the World Bank has banned them from any projects for 10 years because of bribery convictions for procuring contracts in Bangladesh and Cambodia. The Criminal Code sentencing criteria and dpa criteria do not state that in their sentencing considerations for bribery and fraud.

As for the deferred prosecution agreement it is not an automatic entitlement, one is only eligible for consideration for it if they first meet many conditions none related to employing people and many which Lavalin has indicated it would not agree to. The most crucial element of ANY deferred prosecution agreement would be that Lavalin pay back any money it earned from projects awarded through bribery. They have indicated they would not do that. That is not conjecture that is fact.

4-Mr. Trudeau says he learned from his mistakes.

Clearly he did not because today he repeated again it was legally appropriate for him to raise a partisan issue unrelated to the dpa as a legitimate consideration to raise to an AG when it is clear her role says she can not under any circumstance consider this criteria and the dpa law Trudeau passed does not consider loss of jobs a criteria.

More to the point Mr. Trudeau did not apologize or say in future situations he would remove himself from any situations with a conflict of interest and could compromise the integrity of the government, in fact he said he would continue doing what he did.

Mr. Trudeau takes no responsibility for his actions. He also continued the line to tell  JWR how she felt. He again repeated and I quote “she was not pressured” even though at the beginning of his presentation he talked about an “erosion of trust”. Interestingly he didn’t say he caused the erosion of trust at any time or take responsibility for his actions being a cause of the erosion of trust, just he should have realized she did not trust him. Oh it was all friendly discussion he said. He had no idea she did not trust him. Does anyone buy that? Does anyone buy into that script?

Here you are an  AG not supposed to discuss on-going criminal proceedings and you see your Prime Minister and his underlings meet with the criminal charged 80 times in three years and you would not by that alone she would feel pressured?

After the PM raised his concerns for loss of jobs what was that, a non pressurized statement?

When the Privy Council head called her (and he admitted he did) telling her Trudeau was upset over potential job losses and she better reconsider a dpa, what was that? Interestingly today JWR offered to provide written evidence of the pressure and the Liberal majority on the committee refused. They have cut her off and will not permit any consideration of written evidence sent to JWR from the PM, his PMO or the Privy Council head who when asked about his memos said he had none. That by the way after Mr. Trudeau today when asked by a reporter said he was and continues to be transparent? He again said one thing and demonstrated another. He claims he is open while banning evidence showing he pressured JWR.

5. When asked why he did not just leave JWR in cabinet when she refused the Indian Affairs position Trudeau fudged.

Everyone heard the answer he gave. He had no answer.

Today’s comments were less than a charade.  They were a contrite, petulant rich boy of privilege refusing to acknowledge he made serious mistakes and saying he will keep doing what he has and has led to all his problems and carry on as if nothing bad has happened.
It’s a little late for that. A

lso ironically his flight to go apologize to indigenous people for the handling of tuberculosis in the 1950’s was interfered with by bad weather. Coincidence?

To summarize Mr. Trudeau has defined himself as someone who thinks job loss concerns can mask his fear of losing votes from those job losses as his real motivation for fearing the job losses.

He would also have you believe compromising criminal law and the integrity of the legal process by interfering with it over job loss concerns is acceptable.

Of course its not legally and never was. At this point the argument of Liberals is, well everyone else does it. Its just normal politics. Well who else has done it? When in the history of Canada or any democratic nation has a criminal lobbied the government of the day to have the prosecution back off a criminal proceeding. Please have the Liberals on this forum calling that “normal” and “ethical” and “legal” provide an example.

Finally I will say it one last time for the Liberals on this forum. A dpa is predicated on an alleged criminal BEFORE not after they are charged, voluntarily approaching the crown on their case and offering to make restitution. That's not conjecture its how the law works.

 Lavalin has never done that. In fact it went around the prosecutor to the PMO to pressure the AG to back off and when she would not raised the dpa as a solution and lobbied Trudeau to pass a dpa law. That is not how dpa’s work. In fact you don’t even need a dpa law. We could have had a plea bargain that would do the same thing. The reason there was no plea bargain is neither Lavalin or Trudeau wanted to take the chance as to the sentence a Judge would demand against Lavalin.

What Lavalin knows is they are a REPEAT offender of bribery crimes and so the sentence can NOT be lenient because of how the Criminal Code is written. No the Criminal Code does not to this day, allow a repeat offender a lighter sentence let alone a dpa.

Next, ask yourselves this about these Liberals. Sure Omni and Waldo can giggle and ignore anyone they disagree with but have they or are they capable of defending what Trudeau did as ethical? I am still waiting. Omni said he needed to wait and see. Lol.

How long ago was it on this forum and in Parliament Liberals like Omni were all wetting their pants over Mike Duffy. How do these same righteous defenders of ethics and open government defend what Trudeau is doing now? Well Waldo and Omni? You think ignoring me makes what Trudeau did go away?

I seem to remember these Liberals on this forum lecture many of us that the West is to blame for the problems of the third world by propping evil dictators. However if Lavalin does that and bribes these evil dictators Omni has no issues with that and none of these other leftist do gooders do. Suddenly when its a Liberal gets into bed with an unethical, corrupt multi-national that pays off dictators and war criminals, its o.k. because it employs Canadians?

BULL ****.

Run along Waldo and Omni your Lord's head is jammed for far up his buttocks not even Grant Garneau, who has flown in dark spaces can help him.


You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #679 on: March 07, 2019, 06:03:56 pm »
Yes, he is a cabinet rookie. He however has a very extensive legal background, and specializes in international law. His legal experience is far, far more extensive than JWR who was also a cabinet rookie.

Well now how did a more qualified MP originally get passed over for the Justice/AG job for a less qualified MP a few years ago?  Oh wait the white male didn't have an aboriginal ****.  Brison is gone, time to fill that white male quota!

JT is a sexist, a racist, and now a crooked lying bully.  Good to know!
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #680 on: March 07, 2019, 06:28:50 pm »
Thirdly and most importantly the law Mr. Trudeau passed allowing deferred prosecution agreements does not and never stated loss of jobs is a criteria for granting a deferred prosecution agreement. I explained that in a previous email but of course the Liberals on this forum select only that which they want to read and hear just like their dear leader. You can read the law yourself, loss of jobs is not a legal consideration for determining whether a deferred prosecution agreement should be considered. That's not speculation, conjecture, its called law. Waldo, Omni, they can ignore the law, but it exists and isn't speculated by me.

16,000 jobs inclusive of direct employees (~4000 in Quebec, ~5000 across the rest of Canada), support and supply-chain personnel... a risk & impact consideration; certainly a matter of public interest. If you wrestle yourself away from your GishGalloping, provide a cite that states public interest is not a consideration when evaluating whether a remediation agreement could be offered.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #681 on: March 07, 2019, 06:36:36 pm »
Oh wait the white male didn't have an aboriginal ****.

JT is a sexist, a racist, and now a crooked lying bully.  Good to know!


projection: A way to transfer guilt for your own thoughts, emotions and actions onto another as a way of not admitting your guilt to yourself.

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Offline MH

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #682 on: March 07, 2019, 06:39:04 pm »
Historically, Drama teachers, who ride off their father's coattails do not make good leaders. Of course, there are always exceptions...

Trudeau worked longer than Scheer did as an insurance salesman. 

Scheer was an MP at 25.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #683 on: March 07, 2019, 06:47:54 pm »
Fourthly what proof does Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Butt or anyone else have, that Lavalin would lose jobs? When asked Butt said he had no proof. When Mr. Trudeau was asked today he said he had a “variety of sources”. That’s interesting because when asked to produce him today he would not answer and when asked to mention one source, he could not. There are no sources.

Lavalin by the way has a head office in Quebec City. They borrowed 1.5 billion from the Caisse Populaires in Quebec as I stated earlier with an express agreement that if they move out of Quebec before 2024 they must pay back the loan in full plus a penalty. Someone tell Waldo that is a fact not conjecture. Tell him what is conjecture is stating there would be a job loss in Quebec.

Speculation about loss of jobs is from a spin by Lavalin to the Liberal government that if they are criminally sentenced, they would not be allowed federal government contracts for 10 years and that is where they would lose their anticipated future revenue. That is a false and nonsensical speculation.

how sad you can't rise above your strawman! Please feel free to provide a cite quoting Trudeau/Butts/Wernick stating job loss was guaranteed... the concern for impacts upon jobs is one of considered risk to job loss and a potential move of parts of the company to another country. Perhaps you could offer your "credible insight" and explain why losing the ability to bid on federal contracts for 10 years is not a concern for the company/employees/shareholders?

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #684 on: March 07, 2019, 06:57:52 pm »
Historically, Drama teachers, who ride off their father's coattails do not make good leaders. Of course, there are always exceptions...

why would you purposely omit/negate the 8 years of experience as an Opposition MP (with 2 of those as Liberal Party leader)... notwithstanding the pre-political teaching curriculum also included math, French & humanities. Sorry to burst you talking point.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #685 on: March 07, 2019, 07:05:01 pm »
As for the deferred prosecution agreement it is not an automatic entitlement, one is only eligible for consideration for it if they first meet many conditions none related to employing people and many which Lavalin has indicated it would not agree to. The most crucial element of ANY deferred prosecution agreement would be that Lavalin pay back any money it earned from projects awarded through bribery. They have indicated they would not do that. That is not conjecture that is fact.

citation request for your expressed facts - thanks in advance

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #686 on: March 07, 2019, 07:08:35 pm »
You should have also requested a citation for "historical" data on the leadership performance of drama teachers who rode on their fathers' coattails.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #687 on: March 07, 2019, 07:11:37 pm »
4-Mr. Trudeau says he learned from his mistakes.

Clearly he did not because today he repeated again it was legally appropriate for him to raise a partisan issue unrelated to the dpa as a legitimate consideration to raise to an AG when it is clear her role says she can not under any circumstance consider this criteria and the dpa law Trudeau passed does not consider loss of jobs a criteria.

no - again, see public interest... per prior request to you... in the interest of tempering your bloviating-self, please provide that cite - yes?
If you wrestle yourself away from your GishGalloping, provide a cite that states public interest is not a consideration when evaluating whether a remediation agreement could be offered.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #688 on: March 07, 2019, 07:13:07 pm »
You should have also requested a citation for "historical" data on the leadership performance of drama teachers who rode on their fathers' coattails.

it's a thought; however, I doubt the Pinus guy has heard of Google Scholar!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #689 on: March 07, 2019, 07:27:34 pm »
He again repeated and I quote “she was not pressured”

He claims he is open while banning evidence showing he pressured JWR

ya, ya - Jody's truth! Such pressure... on her fee-fee sensitivities! From the testimony: 10 meetings over 4 months... 3 that she personally attended (at least 1 of the 3 she solicited herself!). Such pressure! But give her credit - she held out against that intense pressure through Sept., through Oct., through Nov., and through Dec.!!! But somehow, somehow, her perseverance couldn't last and the public became aware... after the cabinet shuffle. Timing is everything, yes?
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