Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38397 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2019, 02:14:48 pm »
Despite what many assume, I am not a partisan. I try to look at each issue rationally and avoid jumping on bandwagons just because everyone else is.

In this case it is important to remember that the decision to prosecute and on what charges can be a political judgement because prosecutors have to consider the public interest. I can't see why the elected government should not have a role is deciding what the public interest is. The current system which makes any such involvement by politicians a matter of public record provides a good defense against politicians using this power to reward friends and punish enemies.

With the SNC-Lavalin case it is not clear what was said and the subsequent demotion of the MOJ is concerning so I agree it stinks. However, the simple fact of the PMO asking about a case and expressing an opinion is not, in itself, wrong. Nor is it wrong for MOJ the to direct prosecutors to use the provisions in the law to to negotiate a settlement wrong provided all of the instructions are in writing and made public. People need to keep these distinctions in mind as we get more information on what exactly happened.

The whole thing is rotten. The then-in-deep-****-and-under-investigation SNC-Lavalin lobbied the government dozens of times before the gov snuck a section into the 2018 omnibus budget bill that could legally get firms such as theirs off the hook with a fine and an apology.  It's total bullshit, SNC-Lavalin has proven time and again to be a criminal organization that keeps getting huge government contracts.  SNC-Lavalin has lobbied this government over 50 times in the last 2 years while in deep criminal doo-doo.  Apparently it also illegally gave the Liberal Party $110 million.

This reeks of corruption, this company needs to gutted, split up, and sold.  If SNC-Lavalin committed these crimes in Canada, imagine the crimes they've committed in foreign countries we've never heard about and many we never will.  I get what you're saying but this goes beyond "the public interest".
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2019, 02:19:13 pm »
Agreed. The only point i wanted to make is that, given what we know so far, it is possible that the government did nothing wrong but we need an open inquiry to determine if this is the case.

Yes, we really don't know many of the details yet.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2019, 02:34:31 pm »
re: Ms. kimmy's declared 'slap on the wrist'..... alleged. Wait, what? Why Canada needs deferred prosecution agreements in our courtrooms

That article is written by a lawyer at a Bay Street law firm that defends white color criminals and organizations.  I smell no conflict of interest.

Quote
waldo enlightenment: Govt. of Canada public consultation, no less! --- Expanding Canada's toolkit to address corporate wrongdoing: The deferred prosecution agreement stream discussion guide
[/quote]

Glad that 43% of those consulted were businesses, and 7% consulted were from the "justice sector".  Seems fair.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2019, 02:38:01 pm »
The fact she has engaged a retired SCJ to advise her on what she can say certainly points to something interesting.

I think it points to a lot of things interesting yes.  And her council not only on what she can say, but as her council generally.  Because she knows she's walking within a pile of deep doo-doo.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2019, 02:39:18 pm »
reason(s) for resignation? As has been well discussed, Ms. Wilson-Raybould has taken significant criticism for her handling of assisted-dying & impaired-driving legislation and her publicly expressed frustrations over the pace/approach of (her) government's handling of so-called 'reconciliation'...

Yeah, that's why she resigned.  ???
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2019, 02:44:36 pm »
We don't know the circumstances behind her resignation. There is more going on here than what we know.

If she was pressured to influence something when she was Justice Minister, that is unethical as hell if not criminal, whether or not she actually did anything.

There's a whole bunch of reasons she could have resigned.  One could be that she knows she's in for a big public legal & PR battle and doesn't have the time to properly do her duties as minister.

She's retained a former SCJ as her legal council.  ****'s hitting the fan and she knows it.  What this tells me is that this isn't just an innocent mix up here, and that the Globe's accusations have some legs, despite what Justin tells us.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2019, 02:50:23 pm »
Well, one person who likely will benefit is Jagmeet Singh.  His Liberal opponent in the upcoming Burnaby by-election may take a support hit from this.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2019, 03:06:10 pm »
as she stated in her resignation letter: to advise her on "topics that I am legally permitted to discuss on this matter." Quite shocking for a lawyer to do so, hey wilberWithBaitedBreath!


by the by, deferred prosecution agreements are everyday, matter-of-fact legal process handling within the U.S./UK... are they a good thing... or not? If not, why not?

do you accept the Oct. 9 ruling by the director of public prosecutions: where SNC-Lavalin was found not eligible for a deferred prosecution agreement - yes or no?

The issue is not whether SNC was found not eligible, it is whether the PMO tried to exert an influence. Just because you tried to commit a crime and failed, doesn't make you innocent.  I repeat, why would you get advice about what you can say about an issue if nothing was said about it in the first place. Someone said something and it is important to get to the bottom of this, wherever it leads or doesn't.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2019, 03:52:10 pm »
Apparently it also illegally gave the Liberal Party $110 million.

It also gave illegally to the Conservative party, although about 20% what they gave the Liberals. It is important to note that money was returned by both parties in 2016, so trying to connect it to a 2018 legislation is a bit far fetched.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2019, 04:09:51 pm »
Looking worse. 

I would guess this is > Mike Duffy but < Sponsorship scandal.  In a dead heat, though, they could lose Ontario to the Conservatives. Quebec to... uh... is the BQ still around ? 

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2019, 04:40:14 pm »
... the gov snuck a section into the 2018 omnibus budget bill that could legally get firms such as theirs off the hook with a fine and an apology.

"snuck" ??? Are you saying Opposition parties didn't do their due diligence? The waldo suggests you do some research on remediation agreements (ala 'deferred prosecution')... apparently... they're SOP in the U.S. & UK - go figure, hey!


Why Canada needs deferred prosecution agreements in our courtrooms

Quote
Remediation  Agreements  are  a  welcome  development  in  Canadian  white-collar  enforcement.  The  prospect  of  avoiding criminal prosecution by entering into a Remediation Agreement should encourage companies to self-disclose wrongdoing early on, thereby furthering the detection and prevention of corporate crime while eliminating the dilemma that responsible and proactive corporations have faced to date.

Remediation Agreements may also reduce the impacts of criminal prosecutions and convictions on the company’s greater  community  of  constituents,  including  employees,  investors  and  their  communities,  by  allowing  the  company to avoid the economic consequences of a criminal conviction that would otherwise be borne by those constituents.

Given these potential material benefits to a company’s stakeholders, the failure of a company’s officers or board of  directors  to  take  the  steps  necessary  to  take  advantage  of  the  new  regime  may  expose  them  to  potential  personal liability. Officers or directors who decide to not investigate evidence of potential criminal wrongdoing, or decide to not disclose wrongdoing to take advantage of the new regime, may find themselves under increased scrutiny if the company is later criminally charged and convicted.


waldo enlightenment: Govt. of Canada public consultation, no less! --- Expanding Canada's toolkit to address corporate wrongdoing: The deferred prosecution agreement stream discussion guide

Criminal Code (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46)  --- PART XXII.1 Remediation Agreements
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2019, 04:41:46 pm »
Just because you tried to commit a crime and failed, doesn't make you innocent.

please to be advisin': what crime?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2019, 05:00:34 pm »
"snuck" ??? Are you saying Opposition parties didn't do their due diligence? The waldo suggests you do some research on remediation agreements (ala 'deferred prosecution')... apparently... they're SOP in the U.S. & UK - go figure, hey!

US politics is deeply corrupted by corporations and big money lobbying.  Bernie Sanders came out of nowhere and almost beat Hillary running mainly on that very issue.  Trump was elected partly on a promise to "drain the swamp".  Not the best example of political-corporate ethics to try to emulate.  The UK I really don't know.

And yes, snuck.  There's a reason you slip controversial legislation into an omnibus budget bill that has nothing to do with the budget instead of making it its own bill and running it through on its own merits.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline wilber

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2019, 05:03:50 pm »
please to be advisin': what crime?

Playing obtuse again.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2019, 05:13:21 pm »
US politics is deeply corrupted by corporations and big money lobbying.  Bernie Sanders came out of nowhere and almost beat Hillary running mainly on that very issue.  Trump was elected partly on a promise to "drain the swamp".  Not the best example of political-corporate ethics to try to emulate.

wassup! Corporations are people, don't ya know? But ya, your comment has nothing to do with remediation agreements - but rant on! The waldo suggests you might first take a stab at explaining what concern you have with them... and more pointedly with the related Canadian legislation/law - yes?