Author Topic: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal  (Read 38358 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #285 on: February 24, 2019, 02:42:30 pm »
c'mon Ms. kimmy... your presumptive "pressureing/badgering" timeline is one of 3 months pre-cabinet-shuffle; itself then followed by 1 month post-cabinet-shuffle!!! And JWR says didly squat throughout all that period? Really? Your narrative runs severely weak! Notwithstanding your cartoonish post & your linked cartoon can't deflect from your failure to answer my direct questions; here, try again:

accepting to your naivete, riddle me this: at any time, what was stopping JWR from bringing the (perceived) "pressure" concerns forward either internally or through formal (Ethics Commissioner) channels? Why did JWR accept the new cabinet posting to Veteran Affairs/Department of Defence - why didn't she refuse the assignment and resign then... why wait a full month before resigning from the new cabinet positions?

c'mon Ms. kimmy! Isn't your (perceived) 'pressure'... isn't your declared 'badgering', subjective Ms. kimmy wishful-thinking(™)  determinations - yes?

the waldo has clearly laid this all out for you previously! Again, as much as you want to totally hang your wishful thinking(™) nonsense on the DPA makeup, there is a distinction to be made between prosecuting, "in the public interest" versus not prosecuting based upon possible/interpreted harm to the national economy ("national economic interest"). I've already outlined for you where that distinction can be made... and the position that can make it.

your failing narrative has no merit! By the by, do you have a personal subjective determination of how to interpret and define "pressuring & badgering"?  ;D
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Offline Rue

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #286 on: February 25, 2019, 05:24:24 pm »
Clerk of the Privy Council Michael Wernick is hardly the partisan your agenda speaks to! He's worked within the governments of 3 Prime Ministers; during his testimony he openly praised Harper and related legislation Harper Conservatives put through.

Wernick responded to the questions he was asked - you simply don't like his answers. Perhaps you can explain how to answer those very direct and pointed questions... in a "neutral manner"... one where the Opposition members are satisfied and your feefees aren't hurt!  ;D

citation request

I am trying to understand your response. What you said I question. Please provide his comments where he "praised Harper and related legislation"  I strongly doubt he made such partisan comments and  if he indeed praised Harper and legislation he passed which I would love to see cited, that would also make him a partisan individual engaging in partisan inappropriate comments further evidencing what I stated.

No civil servant, let alone the head of the civil service is allowed or should make comments expressing his or her personal sentiments or subjective opinions as to legislation. Its not their job. They are administrators only. There job is not to determine what is appropriate only administer the laws given to them. It is elected officials who decide what is politically appropriate and Judges who decide what legal meanings are to be given to a piece of legislative wording not the friggin Privy head.

Let me be as clear as can be, The Privy Council Office (PCO; French: Bureau du Conseil privé) is the secretariat of the federal cabinet of Canada, which is a committee of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, and is to provide non-partisan advice and support to the Canadian ministry, as well as leadership, coordination, and support to the departments and agencies of government. It never was given the role of making legal judgements or expressing subjective partisan opinions.

The Privy Council Office's role is NOT and should not be the same as the Prime Minister's Office. The PM's office is a personal and partisan office and hus advisors like Butt will provide strategy advice to the PM on how to best get him relected. Its a narrow perspective concerned with getting him relected and examining which policies or functions the government carries out would make him unpopular and less likely to be reelected. This office puts the best interests of the Prime Minister being relected before the best interests of the country.

However because that is well known and understood it has always been a basic premises of Canadian politics that because of that narrow perspective, the Prime Minister also receive advice from other sources mor e neutral. To that end, the PCO is supposed to function as an alternative advisor. Both offices situated physically next to one another serve as  boith  policy-oriented and politically-sensitive advisory unitsto the Prime Minister but the PCO's first priority is good government not what gets the PM rerelected unlike the PMO office which is the other way around.

The Minister of Justice of Canada is elected. Clearly they do what they do to get reelected. They are partisan in favour of their political party. However unlike other cabinet ministries this Ministry has multiple roles and some of those roles do not allow it when serving those roles to be partisan in nature.

To be specific the Attorney General of Canada is also the Minister of Justice of Canada. This Minister wears two hats, one political and partisan the other a constitutional role defined by the laws of Canada.

Those laws say the Attorney General is obliged  (they have no discretion)to assure that the legal systems it overseas are followed as per the procedures set out in those laws. The AG can't exercise-if there is legal grounds to believe a Canadian criminal law is violated, they MUST prosecute.

This means the Attorney General  MUST it has no choice...advise the Cabinet that it must prosecute criminal cases that might have political fall out so as to ensure that the Cabinet’s actions are legal and constitutionally valid and that the rule of law is maintained. This type of legal advice, provided by the Attorney General, differs significantly from the Attorney’s General policy advice; while the latter could be disregarded, the former can not.

Every lawyer in this country knows if the AG allows the PMO office or anyone including the PCO office to pressure it not to pursue a prosecution or seek a lesser sentence for POLITICAL reasons, that this violates the law and the basic rules of law. There is no grey area. Crowns decide based on the merits of evidence, NOT the outcome of what it might lead to which could alienate votes in Quebec.

Here go to: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/principles2-principes2.html, the Liberals haven't deleted it yet...it states:

"As will become evident, I view the unique role of the Attorney General as a fundamental pillar of the rule of law in Canada. In its simplest articulation, the rule of law ensures that no one, including the elected Government of the day, is above the law. As a guardian of the rule of law, the Attorney General is tasked with upholding the public interest."

No the Privy Council head does NOT and never had the role of or right to comment on or try approach the AG to discuss what sentence terms she should pursue against Lavalin which is what Trudeau and his Butt Boy did.

You can deny until doomsday but they wanted her to guarantee them no one would go to jail and the fine would not be so large as to negatively impact on the company and they wanted to make sure the verdict would not prevent this company from continuing to get contracts from the federal government once convicted.

Of course that is partisan political influence peddling and it is morally wrong and it could very well have crossed the line and become illegal influence peddling.

What makes it repulsive is Justin Trudeau got elected criticizing Harper for passing omnibus bills hiding legislation that was unpopular in larger cumbersome bills so  no one would read the unpopular laws placed in the middle of the others.

Justin did the same thing passing a law to allow himself to influence peddle and give him and his PMO the right to approach the AG and tell her to PLEA BARGAIN a specific plea the Crown would not decide on the merits of evidence of the case but based on what would enable SNC to avoid any negative impact to prevent it from losing jobs and in that way placate Quebec voters who might otherwise be put out of work.

In simple terms, the legal plea being asked for was determined on what was most favourable for getting Quebec votes not based on the merits of the evidence of the case and it would have been wrong for any government of the day to do what Trudeau and Butts did.

This is the same Trudeau who went on vacation with the Aga Kahn who paid for his vacation at the same time he lobbied the government for funds.

Trudeau to date has refused to admit this was a breach  of ethics or as he promised discuss it with the Ethics Commissioner and his lie, his absolute and utter lie was played out in Parliament as when he was asked why he did not go to the Ethics office refused to answer.

This is someone who plea bargained behind closed doors a 10 million hand out to a terrorist and then gave that terrorist's lawyer a judge's position.

This is someone who has openly stated to the world he is rewarding people breaking Canadian immigration law by giving them more rights than legitimate immigrants lining up.

This is a PM who openly breaks laws. This is someone who lectures China that his government does not involve itself in legal matters while at the same time engages in this Lavalin fiasco for China and the world to see. Zero credibility.

Then you write me and ask what the Privy Council head said that was partisan? Bull ****. You heard what he said. His entire testimony from the moment he opened his mouth to when he left was partisan and ultra vires the jurisdiction of his powers. No the head of the Privy Council does not claim there will be assassinations because he feels some people overly question the government. What bullshit. What arrogant bullshit. Now he decides what political opinions incite violence. I call bullshit. Its not his role.

Next he should have made NO comment as to whether the PMO's office went too far. Its not his role. He can only discuss policy implications. Being head of the civil service he can not question any Crown Attorney let alone the head Crown Attorney as to what constitutes sufficient evidence to pursue charges and its only after a sentence is entered that discussions as to the appropriate sentence should come up.

If there is a plea bargain arrangement its between the Crown and SNC not the PMO, not the PCO, not the AG, not the  PM.

All lawyers know exactly what happened to Jody. She could not guarantee a specific plea bargain that they tried to pressure on her and they got pissed at her and punished her with a demotion and she in turn is pissed at them.

So the question now is, who is left standing. Her or Justin. The fact she is still an MP and Butt boy ran and Trudeau did an about face about her being able to testify should tell you he caved in. He tried to bully her, failed, and now he's trying to salvage what's left of his pathetic tenure.

His decision to go to Halifax to a funeral where he did not belong to giggle and cry and make sure to hijack the service to show pictures of him smiling and crying is par for the course.This is his m.o. Attend public events, hijack their focus to show him.

Does he think his shedding a tear works anymore? Boohoooo.

Now you want to deny what Kimmy said? Really? You want to pretend the PCO has the right to do  what it did. No you cite. Don't tell me to cite you cite. Cite the law where it says the head civil service is to call the AG and tell her to make specific plea bargains. Please.


The Attorney General is also responsible for all criminal prosecutions in the country. However, some prosecutions are conducted by the provincial Attorney General authorities under the Canadian Criminal Code. The Attorney General may provide the police with some legal advice but should never cause charges to be laid – the ultimate decision is in the hands of the police authorities. The Attorney General has to fulfil his or her criminal prosecution duties independently of any political or government pressure. These duties require fairness of the presentation of cases and does not necessarily result in a conviction. This is a basic criminal law precept which is not well-understood at times or perceived as just. The office of the Attorney General operates under the 1867 Constitution Act which postulates that provincial legislatures have authority over the administration of justice. The provincial Attorney General may be designated as such or as a minister of justice for the particular province. In some provinces, the post may combine both functions.
 law. To be clear, The Attorney General of Canada is the highest-ranking prosecuting officer in Canada.

You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #287 on: February 25, 2019, 05:29:51 pm »
No the Privy Council head does NOT and never had the role of or right to comment on or try approach the AG to discuss what sentence terms she should pursue against Lavalin which is what Trudeau and his Butt Boy did.

I stopped reading your swill there. You are making unsubstantiated allegations, and acting like a sucky little child.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #288 on: February 25, 2019, 07:08:52 pm »
Let me be as clear as can be, The Privy Council Office (PCO; French: Bureau du Conseil privé) is the secretariat of the federal cabinet of Canada, which is a committee of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, and is to provide non-partisan advice and support to the Canadian ministry, as well as leadership, coordination, and support to the departments and agencies of government. It never was given the role of making legal judgements or expressing subjective partisan opinions.

instead of writing such a lengthy tirade, perhaps you could actually state what you interpret as legal judgements or partisan opinions given by Michael Wernick, Clerk of the Privy Council


Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #289 on: February 25, 2019, 07:13:23 pm »
Justice Committee testimony - Michael Wernick, Clerk of the Privy Council

transcript of opening testimony - given before the beginning of Q/A sessions:


Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #290 on: February 26, 2019, 01:21:18 pm »
hey Rue... how's that Scheer Conservative driven, CONmedia fueled, "scandale" de SNC-Lavalin playing in Quebec, hey?

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #291 on: February 26, 2019, 01:51:40 pm »
hey Rue... how's that Scheer Conservative driven, CONmedia fueled, "scandale" de SNC-Lavalin playing in Quebec, hey?
In Outremont? Come on, man. That riding had a Conservative MP once in its history. Otherwise it has been Tory red the entire time, except when Mulcair was holding the seat.

Your response here is literally like a Conservative winning in deep Alberta and someone saying, "See! Trudeau is done!"
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #292 on: February 26, 2019, 04:07:33 pm »
It appears that JWR has been given a wavier to speak freely tomorrow.

Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #293 on: February 26, 2019, 07:15:55 pm »
In Outremont? Come on, man. That riding had a Conservative MP once in its history. Otherwise it has been Tory red the entire time, except when Mulcair was holding the seat.

Your response here is literally like a Conservative winning in deep Alberta and someone saying, "See! Trudeau is done!"

no - the 10-year 'Orange Crush' Mulcair hold on the riding was just... crushed! (my Con references were, as stated, particular to the "scandale" de SNC-Lavalin) - there would never be an expectation of a Con win (or even 2nd place) in that riding... but wagAnalysis seems to suggest Quebec voters are not/will not take kindly to the Scheermongering!

Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #294 on: February 26, 2019, 11:19:16 pm »
You're bragging because the Liberals went one-for-three in byelections?  Weird flex, but okay.

The one they did win was (literally) in SNC-Lavalin's back yard-- so no shocker that voters there aren't disappointed that the Liberals went the extra mile trying to get SNC-Lavalin off the hook.

And that's really what this is all about: winning Quebec votes.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #295 on: February 26, 2019, 11:37:42 pm »
Yesterday we learned that in addition to pleading with JWR to stop the prosecution, the Liberals were also overhauling the Public Service Procurement Canada "Integrity Regime" so companies convicted of bribery wouldn't face the 10 year ban on receiving government contracts.


 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #296 on: February 27, 2019, 12:51:19 am »
You're bragging because the Liberals went one-for-three in byelections?  Weird flex, but okay.

bragging? Yours is a most bizarre interpretation - your weird flex, but okay. Wait... other than you, who said anything about by-elections outside Quebec? You know, that province where SNC-Lavalin has been based for over a 100 years... that employs ~4000 employees in Quebec alone... that has 20% of its shares owned by the Quebec pension plan... that has had 2 Quebec Premiers and many other assorted Quebec politicians actively lobbying on its behalf... that has the provincial government and industry experts concerned about SNC_Lavalin becoming a takeover target... etc., etc., etc.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #297 on: February 27, 2019, 01:01:13 am »
Yesterday we learned that in addition to pleading with JWR to stop the prosecution...

;D you've gone from "pressuring" to "badgering" to now... "pleading" - oh my! Again, other than an anonymous sourced G&M article and your subjective determination on what constitutes pressuring badgering pleading to the level that your sensitive fee-fees just can't take it any more... ya gots nuthin, ya gots diddly! Perhaps (tomorrow) we'll see if your subjectivity aligns with... measures up to... that of St. Jody!
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Offline Boges

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #298 on: February 27, 2019, 03:08:01 pm »
WELL!!! Who's watching TV?

JWR stated that JT pressured her to offer SNC a DPA. Stressing it would hurt the Quebec Liberals in the election.

Saving jobs in Quebec > Prosecuting a Corrupt company.

Anxiously awaiting Liberal Fanboys claiming she's a liar.

Interesting this happens on the same day Micheal Cohen testifies in the US regarding the behaviour of one Donald Trump.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 03:10:57 pm by Boges »

Offline Boges

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Re: Trudeau accused in SNC-Lavalin scandal
« Reply #299 on: February 27, 2019, 03:11:41 pm »
hey Rue... how's that Scheer Conservative driven, CONmedia fueled, "scandale" de SNC-Lavalin playing in Quebec, hey?



Would you expect the CPC to ever do well in Montreal?