Author Topic: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)  (Read 21656 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1380 on: June 22, 2022, 08:06:07 am »
The left quietly won the pandemic by applying massive government intervention that worked.

Doug Ford did that too, he just didn't crap all over everyone's rights and spend his province into more inflation.

The right and left showed themselves to be who they really are.  The right are the freedum anti- science conspiracy morons while the left use the bludgeon of the state to implement all their self righteous foolery and can't help but over-spend their way out of a problem.
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Offline MH

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1381 on: June 22, 2022, 08:30:59 am »
Doug Ford did that too, he just didn't crap all over everyone's rights and spend his province into more inflation.

The right and left showed themselves to be who they really are.  The right are the freedum anti- science conspiracy morons while the left use the bludgeon of the state to implement all their self righteous foolery and can't help but over-spend their way out of a problem.

Sorry - Ford and Trudeau were on the same team here. 

The Convoy people hated Trudeau but Ford was just as complicit in any policies the freedom coughers hated.

You are calling Ford 'the left' because... the state... as though a pandemic is a good time for government to step back and let the market take hold of things...

The State needs to step up in hard times and that's not a left or right thing. 

The one 'leftist' thing I will acknowledge is the CERB, which was apparently adequate.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1382 on: June 22, 2022, 10:21:06 am »
It should be regarded as no accident that in 2016, when a populist movement carried Trump to victory over his establishment opponents, an equally fervent populist movement propelled Bernie Sanders to a serious challenge of Hillary Clinton's position of prohibitive front-runner.

Voters are regular people who just want to know why they can't get ahead in the world. People who want to know why they work harder and prices go up and their wages don't. People who see the stock market numbers go up and the unemployment index go down and ask "why am I just as broke as before?"


lol no they aren't, at least not the voters who actually turn up on election day. Like Trump, I suspect Pollivere's base are revanchist old people and an alliance between the haute and petite bourgeoisie interested in securing their own economic interests. The "working class, blue collar joes" thing is a facade.

Quote
Populism, it seems to me, should be aimed directly at those people. It used to be, didn't it? So why has "populism" become a dirty word?

The left is supposed to have BETTER answers for people like that (which is most of us) than the likes of Trump or Poilievre. So why can't the left reach those voters? Why did the "Rust Belt" states flip to Trump in 2016? Why didn't Biden win a resounding victory in "the Rust Belt" in 2020? Why did Ontario unions support Ford instead of Horvath in the recent Ontario election?  Why does it seem like "the left" has become the choice of Ivory Tower egg-heads and completely lost the blue-collar voter who used to be their base?

One of the post-mortems of the Ontario election I read said that Horvath's campaign was a big hit with Twitter people but a complete miss with real voters. Anybody disagree?

The reason populism has become a dirty word is that it's fundamentally empty in the hands of demagogues like Trump and PP, just cynical sloganeering with nothing behind it.

As for the rest, the left does have answers from a policy standpoint, except mainstream left and centre parties aren't interested in implementing them, as the Jacobin article you link to says. Not that it would matter if they did because the idea that you can win people from the right who are embedded in the populist movement over with policies is absurd.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 12:58:57 pm by Black Dog »

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1383 on: June 22, 2022, 11:12:18 am »
 :'(
Sorry - Ford and Trudeau were on the same team here. 

The Convoy people hated Trudeau but Ford was just as complicit in any policies the freedom coughers hated.

You are calling Ford 'the left' because... the state... as though a pandemic is a good time for government to step back and let the market take hold of things...

The State needs to step up in hard times and that's not a left or right thing. 

The one 'leftist' thing I will acknowledge is the CERB, which was apparently adequate.

I am not calling Ford left.  He's been pretty moderate and mostly reasonable.

Ford and Trudeau are not on the same team.  The convoy was set up because the feds were taking away people's jobs if they didn't want to get vaccinated.  Ford did not require teachers or students to be vaccinated, for instance.  The ON Liberals promised to make student vaccinations mandatory even though the health threat to students from covid is next to zero.

The ON Liberals tried to use mandatory vaccines as a wedge issue in order to try to get elected.  The fed Liberals did the execrable same thing. They announced mandatory vaccines for all public servants even if they work from home during their last election campaign.

They just lifted the mandate btw.  So you were forced to get vaxxed by the gov even if you never went into the office once.  Disgusting abuse of power.
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Offline MH

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1384 on: June 22, 2022, 12:29:39 pm »
:'(
1. I am not calling Ford left.  He's been pretty moderate and mostly reasonable.

2. Ford and Trudeau are not on the same team.  The convoy was set up because the feds were taking away people's jobs if they didn't want to get vaccinated.  Ford did not require teachers or students to be vaccinated, for instance.  The ON Liberals promised to make student vaccinations mandatory even though the health threat to students from covid is next to zero.

3. The ON Liberals tried to use mandatory vaccines as a wedge issue in order to try to get elected.  The fed Liberals did the execrable same thing. They announced mandatory vaccines for all public servants even if they work from home during their last election campaign.  They just lifted the mandate btw.  So you were forced to get vaxxed by the gov even if you never went into the office once.  Disgusting abuse of power.

1. Ford IS 'bludgeon of the state' in Ontario
2. The protesters wanted to drop provincial mandates as well, not just the US-Canada trucking mandates.  Hard to tell because their slogan was "F*** Trudeau'
3. I don't see any major differences - provinces and feds were stumbling along.  But F*** Trudeau...

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1385 on: June 22, 2022, 02:36:46 pm »
1. Ford IS 'bludgeon of the state' in Ontario
2. The protesters wanted to drop provincial mandates as well, not just the US-Canada trucking mandates.  Hard to tell because their slogan was "F*** Trudeau'
3. I don't see any major differences - provinces and feds were stumbling along.  But F*** Trudeau...

Hint:  Trudeau was taking away people's incomes, including women, if they wouldn't get jabbed with medicine needles.  But he bans MP's and Canada Summer Jobs applicants from even speaking about taking away other forms of female body autonomy rights.

Ford didn't even mandate healthcare workers to get jabbed.  The sky didn't fall.  So yeah, F*** Trudeau.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1386 on: June 22, 2022, 02:50:02 pm »
Hint:  Trudeau was taking away people's incomes, including women, if they wouldn't get jabbed with medicine needles.  But he bans MP's and Canada Summer Jobs applicants from even speaking about taking away other forms of female body autonomy rights.

Ford didn't even mandate healthcare workers to get jabbed. The sky didn't fall.  So yeah, F*** Trudeau.

Ontario Mandates Immunization Policies for Long-term Care Homes

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1387 on: June 22, 2022, 03:54:13 pm »
Marco Maraschino said that police forces told him that then needed the Emergency Act to deal with the trucker convoy.

But under oath the Ottawa police chief(s) and the RCMP chief all said that they didn't ask for the Emergency Act to be invoked.

So is Marco Maraschino a big fat liar?  And also, does Marco Maraschino look like a live-action version of the claymation guy from Wallace & Gromit or is it just me??

 -k

That’s the stupid thing…. It was a popular move to invoke the act.  The Libs couldn’t help but shoot themselves in the foot by lying about.  I don’t even know why…. probably as an exaggeration of the reasons they used to invoke it. 

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1388 on: June 22, 2022, 04:56:10 pm »
That’s the stupid thing…. It was a popular move to invoke the act.  The Libs couldn’t help but shoot themselves in the foot by lying about.  I don’t even know why…. probably as an exaggeration of the reasons they used to invoke it.

It's too bad because "the cops are too chickenshit to actually enforce the laws so we're making them" would have been a good message.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1389 on: June 22, 2022, 05:11:37 pm »
The Libs couldn’t help but shoot themselves in the foot by lying about.  I don’t even know why…. probably as an exaggeration of the reasons they used to invoke it.

no! Again:

Quote from: Ottawa Police Chief Steve Bells
The use of the Emergencies Act was very useful, beneficial and necessary to bring an end to the Ottawa blockades.

Quote from: Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson
The Emergencies Act was needed to help resolve many issues during the Freedom Convoy. The biggest issue was that we couldn't get these vehicles out of there because we didn't have the ability to force tow truck companies to come to our aid.

Quote from: Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino
After consultations with law enforcement it was understood by all that you needed to invoke the act. The powers police needed to end the weeks-long blockade in downtown Ottawa found themselves in the Emergencies Act. The request was for the powers, which required the invocation of the Emergencies Act.

I agree we need to scrutinize the invocation of the Emergencies Act, and government is co-operating both with the special committee and the public inquiry tasked with doing so.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1390 on: June 22, 2022, 05:30:07 pm »
Ontario Mandates Immunization Policies for Long-term Care Homes

Not nurses and hospital staff though, as far as aware.

At least LTC homes make sense giving those people are absurdly dying and elementary students aren't.
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Offline MH

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1391 on: June 22, 2022, 06:28:31 pm »
1. Hint:  Trudeau was taking away people's incomes, including women, if they wouldn't get jabbed with medicine needles. 

2. But he bans MP's and Canada Summer Jobs applicants from even speaking about taking away other forms of female body autonomy rights.

3. Ford didn't even mandate healthcare workers to get jabbed.  The sky didn't fall.  So yeah, F*** Trudeau.
1. As was Ford.
2. You are misrepresenting this grossly.
3. I am 100% ok forcing people to get a jab for the public good as were many others.  It might have more to do with community mindedness but go ahead and call us leftys and fascists (?!?). 
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1392 on: June 22, 2022, 09:09:27 pm »
1. As was Ford.
2. You are misrepresenting this grossly.
3. I am 100% ok forcing people to get a jab for the public good as were many others.  It might have more to do with community mindedness but go ahead and call us leftys and fascists (?!?).

1. Only people working in LTC because those living there could easily die.  At least the science was sound on that one.

2. How so?  That's exactly what happened as I recall.

3. Public servants 100% working from home were forced to take medicine.  Why?  So were truckers who spend 90% of their work day alone inside a self-contained truck cabin. How is this for the public good?  If you want to take the medicine take it.  People have civil liberties.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1393 on: June 22, 2022, 09:42:11 pm »
1. Only people working in LTC because those living there could easily die.  At least the science was sound on that one.

2. How so?  That's exactly what happened as I recall.

3. Public servants 100% working from home were forced to take medicine.  Why?  So were truckers who spend 90% of their work day alone inside a self-contained truck cabin. How is this for the public good?  If you want to take the medicine take it.  People have civil liberties.

Public servants were not 100% at home.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Trucker convoy (non-censor edition)
« Reply #1394 on: June 22, 2022, 10:41:56 pm »
Public servants were not 100% at home.

Ok?  The majority were.   What does that have to do with anything anyways?
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