Author Topic: The Trudeau Brand  (Read 58269 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1200 on: March 05, 2021, 12:14:36 pm »
Keep shoveling. Canadians NDP parroting supporters aren't buying it. Looks like nothing but a bunch of political BS to explain away why the Liberals don't support national pharmacare.

you can continue to lay down your cryptic and false one-liners... while ignoring posts you can't refute! By the by, it was the Trudeau Liberal party that provided the impetus to and support for the national Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. You know, the council's report that recommended the federal government work with provinces and territories on a pharmacare system reflecting the five principles: public, portable, comprehensive, universal, and accessible - that recommended the federal government "enshrine the principles and national standards of pharmacare in federal legislation, separate and distinct from the Canada Health Act, to demonstrate its ongoing commitment to partnership on national pharmacare and provide for a dedicated funding arrangement".

as I previously profiled the national Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare:

Quote
a cross-Canada national engagement; one that included an extraordinary collaboration and input from provincial and territorial health ministers and senior officials. Health ministers, finance ministers, and in some cases premiers; one that included senior officials responsible for the management of public drug plans; one that included Indigenous leaders and peoples across the country; one that included Canadians represented as patients, health care providers, stakeholder organizations, industry, business, labour and academics; that included expertise provided by Health Canada and Finance Canada; etc..

c'mon cyber, why don't your NDP boys call the Trudeau Liberals on the claim you're parroting - simply quit providing support to prop-up the minority government, hey! What are you waiting for?  ;D

Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1201 on: March 07, 2021, 08:47:33 am »
You keep parroting the unconstitutional line from the Liberals. The plan was as unconstitutional as the Canada Health Act....that is to say, it's not at all unconstitutional.

That's only true if the provinces agree to such an arrangement. As of now, at least 4 of them, including 2 of largest provinces, are not interested in that arrangement.

I fully expect Pharmacare to come out of the next round of health negotiations, post COVID.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 08:49:44 am by JMT »

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1202 on: March 07, 2021, 01:05:53 pm »
Facts: Trudeau shot down universal pharmacare. He doesn't want to help people with drug coverage, even though his party has been advocating it for over 20 years.

Did he "shoot it down" because he can't get it done or because he doesn't want to?  He doesn't have the power on his own to do it, it only happens if all the provinces are on board.  He can only broker a deal with premiers that are willing.

The NDP aren't in any position to put forward any bill on pharmacare.  They aren't the government in power, they don't have any ability to negotiate a deal for national pharamcare with the provinces.  It's a pipe dream for any non-governing party.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1203 on: March 07, 2021, 01:13:19 pm »
That's only true if the provinces agree to such an arrangement. As of now, at least 4 of them, including 2 of largest provinces, are not interested in that arrangement.

Exactly.  The only thing the NDP could do is help pass something that the Liberals are able to broker with the provinces.  Any bill the NDP put forward by themselves is dead in the water and is used only so they can say during an election campaign "we put forward a great bill for national pharmacare and it was voted down.  Elect us and we'll give you pharamcare".

I wouldn't trust Singh to implement anything.  He's in way over his head, not unlike Trudeau was 5 years ago.  Compare very capable politicians with decades of experience like Chretien or Paul Martin to Singh or Trudeau.  The thing that sunk Chretien and Martin is corruption and arrogance because they were in power too long, which tends to happen.  A fine line between that and naive inexperience
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1204 on: March 08, 2021, 06:54:29 pm »
That's only true if the provinces agree to such an arrangement. As of now, at least 4 of them, including 2 of largest provinces, are not interested in that arrangement.

I fully expect Pharmacare to come out of the next round of health negotiations, post COVID.
Well I guess heís the lesser Trudeau if thatís a problem for him. His dad made it happen. Just saying.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1205 on: March 08, 2021, 10:15:18 pm »
The Canada Health Act only deals with conditions of spending on federal money transfers.  It can't force provinces to accept such conditions or payments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act

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The Canada Health Act (CHA) (the Act) is a piece of Government of Canada legislation, adopted in 1984, which specifies the conditions and criteria with which the provincial and territorial health insurance programs must conform in order to receive federal transfer payments under the Canada Health Transfer. These criteria require universal coverage of all insured services (for all "insured persons").
...
The Act deals only with how the system is financed. Because of the constitutional division of powers among levels of government in Canadian federalism, adherence to CHA conditions is voluntary (enforceable by Health Canada).
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Offline waldo

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1206 on: March 09, 2021, 12:59:30 am »
You keep parroting the unconstitutional line from the Liberals. The plan was as unconstitutional as the Canada Health Act....that is to say, it's not at all unconstitutional.
That's only true if the provinces agree to such an arrangement. As of now, at least 4 of them, including 2 of largest provinces, are not interested in that arrangement.

I fully expect Pharmacare to come out of the next round of health negotiations, post COVID.
Well I guess heís the lesser Trudeau if thatís a problem for him. His dad made it happen. Just saying.

feel the burn - just saying! ;D  So, you're still nattering on... drawing reference to the Canada Health Act (CHA) - yet you still won't answer the pointed question I put to you! Again, as you presume to continue to parrot for the NDP/Singh as they... and you... posture over presumed compliance with the recommendations of the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare's report, shouldn't you drop your continued attachment to the CHA given the report recommendation against using/leveraging it for National Pharmacare? Yes?

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1207 on: March 09, 2021, 12:32:55 pm »
Iím not interested in your silly grandstanding. I want to know what concrete solutions the party youíre a fanatic about is going to bring to the table.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1208 on: March 09, 2021, 03:28:37 pm »
Well I guess heís the lesser Trudeau if thatís a problem for him. His dad made it happen. Just saying.

I actually think he will make it happen, though I'm not sure of all the provinces signing on.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1209 on: March 09, 2021, 03:54:17 pm »
I actually think he will make it happen, though I'm not sure of all the provinces signing on.

I wonder if this is the right time to be trying to implement an expensive program like this given the other spending the government has been doing from COVID.  OR if it's the perfect time because there's so much money going out the door people aren't going to care if more is.  Or if the feds and provinces even have the will to implement such a program right now given the other COVID concerns on their plate.  Also, it's been 2 years since the Lib gov has passed a budget.

If such a program is implemented I would think taxes would have to go up somewhere to pay for it, especially since people and businesses are going to be saving lots of money from not having to pay for meds anymore.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1210 on: March 09, 2021, 04:26:43 pm »
I wonder if this is the right time to be trying to implement an expensive program like this given the other spending the government has been doing from COVID.  OR if it's the perfect time because there's so much money going out the door people aren't going to care if more is.  Or if the feds and provinces even have the will to implement such a program right now given the other COVID concerns on their plate.  Also, it's been 2 years since the Lib gov has passed a budget.

There was money for mini Pharmacare in the Economic and Fiscal Update, 2020. I think we may see something that deals with high cost drugs, such as antiretrovirals. The government said in the EFU that they'd provide $500M annually for such a program starting two fiscal years from now, with the pandemic behind us.

They've also been working on the Canada Drug Agency. It will pool drug purchases, and should reduce costs for the provinces, and hopefully, consumers.

As for the budget - forecasting revenues and even expenses is sort of difficult. It looks to be clearer now though.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 04:28:14 pm by JMT »

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1211 on: March 09, 2021, 08:19:33 pm »
I actually think he will make it happen, though I'm not sure of all the provinces signing on.
Quebec never will but thatís fine if the others are on board. Put it in motion and make the premiers tell their people that they wonít accept federal money for drug coverage.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1212 on: March 09, 2021, 09:28:15 pm »
Quebec never will but thatís fine if the others are on board. Put it in motion and make the premiers tell their people that they wonít accept federal money for drug coverage.
Alberta, Quebec, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have all signaled reservations.

I think they'd have far less reservation about pooled drug buying and catastrophic drug coverage.

In the case of Manitoba and Quebec, a lot of the resistance may come from the fact that they already have relatively comprehensive Pharmacare in place (though in our case, it could certainly use strengthening).

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1213 on: March 09, 2021, 11:07:10 pm »
The NDP thing was obviously a stunt, but it's a stunt that brings attention to the fact that the Liberals have been promising this for years and still haven't done ****.  The kimmo extends a hearty congratulations to the NDP for putting this topic back in the national spotlight.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1214 on: March 09, 2021, 11:47:53 pm »
Iím not interested in your silly grandstanding. I want to know what concrete solutions the party youíre a fanatic about is going to bring to the table.

showcasing you're a NDP parrot pushing a failed NDP stunt isn't the waldo grandstanding. Let me know when our respective party alignment/bias moves from partisanship into your labeled fanaticism, hey!

Quote from: Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada
The NDP are pulling a political stunt to try to demonstrate that it could do it with the wave of a magic wand. We work in the real world here. No Canadian should have to make a choice between buying medication and putting food on the table. We will therefore continue to work towards national universal pharmacare. We will do so in respect of the Constitution and in partnership with the provinces and not impose a political decision from Ottawa. We believe in partnership as the path forward.
Quote from: Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada
Unlike the NDP, we will not be imposing, in provincial jurisdiction, rules that are not worked out with the provinces. We respect the constitution on this side of the House and weíll work hand in glove with the premiers to ensureÖ pharmacare universally across this country