Author Topic: The Trudeau Brand  (Read 139102 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1170 on: February 28, 2021, 04:15:50 pm »
I'm not against universal pharmacare but I don't think the feds should have anything to do with it.  It's not their domain.

Offline eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1171 on: February 28, 2021, 06:32:45 pm »
I'm not against universal pharmacare but I don't think the feds should have anything to do with it.  It's not their domain.
So you're for Pharmacare but just something more galactic in scale.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1172 on: February 28, 2021, 08:06:48 pm »
So you're for Pharmacare but just something more galactic in scale.

Healthcare is the constitutional domain of the provinces, so it should go through them and not the feds.

Not even sure why the feds would want to take responsibility for such an expensive program.
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1173 on: February 28, 2021, 09:35:20 pm »
Healthcare is the constitutional domain of the provinces, so it should go through them and not the feds.
So where is the universality and weren't we were talking about Pharmacare?  If its all mixed into the same thing can we please also include Dentalcare?  Even Galactic Dentalcare would be a vast improvement over the absence of none whatsoever.

Quote
Not even sure why the feds would want to take responsibility for such an expensive program.
It should be a matter of what Canadians want which I'm willing to bet includes a better scale of economy and efficiency. I'm not sure why most provinces would want all the responsibility for such an expense.  Surely centralizing and streamlining some of the bigger weightier responsibilities of 10 departments all doing the same thing into one will result in better outcomes.  This should look more like an aircraft carrier battle group where the carrier covers the group that's supporting the carrier.  Instead it all too often looks more like the Titanic with lifeboats paddling in ten directions.   
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9844
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1174 on: February 28, 2021, 10:11:18 pm »
Healthcare is the constitutional domain of the provinces, so it should go through them and not the feds.

Not even sure why the feds would want to take responsibility for such an expensive program.

how stoopid are you? Care to describe how the universal pharmacare you say you're in favour of would operate?

Quote
Over 20% of the population relies on public drug plans. There are over 100 provincial, territorial and federal drug plans across the country, and they all provide different levels of coverage. Most public drug plans cover certain populations such as seniors or people on social assistance. The provinces and territories all cover different medications, which leaves access to some medications dependent on where you live.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1175 on: February 28, 2021, 10:26:04 pm »
Healthcare is the constitutional domain of the provinces, so it should go through them and not the feds.

Not even sure why the feds would want to take responsibility for such an expensive program.

Maybe try reading/trying to understand the Canada Health Act.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/canada-health-care-system.html

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1176 on: February 28, 2021, 11:46:29 pm »
Maybe try reading/trying to understand the Canada Health Act.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/canada-health-care-system.html

What exactly about it are you referring to?

Through this act the feds provide money transfers to provinces so they can implement their own health care programs, which is their constitutional domain.  A federal program might even be a good idea but how would you implement something that isn't constitutional?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 11:49:26 pm by Gorgeous Graham »

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1177 on: February 28, 2021, 11:52:03 pm »
how stoopid are you? Care to describe how the universal pharmacare you say you're in favour of would operate?

The same as universal health care in the provinces.  Everyone is insured and gets coverage through their provincial insurance plan.

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9844
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1178 on: March 01, 2021, 10:51:29 am »
Maybe try reading/trying to understand the Canada Health Act.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/canada-health-care-system.html

clearly member Gorgeous has a mega-understanding gap... apparently, to him, the federal money flow (health transfer monies)... just happens - unconditional without any oversight/control!



but again, as I highlighted earlier, to implement Universal Pharmacare for Canadians, the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare is recommending a vehicle separate and distinct from the Canada Health Act:

Quote
Ottawa work with provinces and territories on a pharmacare system reflecting the five principles of: public, portable, comprehensive, universal, and accessible. The report also recommended the federal government “enshrine the principles and national standards of pharmacare in federal legislation, separate and distinct from the Canada Health Act, to demonstrate its ongoing commitment to partnership on national pharmacare and provide for a dedicated funding arrangement.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1179 on: March 01, 2021, 02:40:17 pm »
clearly member Gorgeous has a mega-understanding gap... apparently, to him, the federal money flow (health transfer monies)... just happens - unconditional without any oversight/control!

Do the feds have constitutional authority to implement a national pharmacare program or not?  Please answer in meme form with insulting nicknames for any person referenced.  Thank you.
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9844
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1180 on: March 01, 2021, 03:14:36 pm »
Do the feds have constitutional authority to implement a national pharmacare national medicare program or not?

I double-dog-dareYa to answer this!  ;D
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1181 on: March 01, 2021, 03:18:55 pm »
Do the feds have constitutional authority to implement a national pharmacare program or not?  Please answer in meme form with insulting nicknames for any person referenced.  Thank you.

The answer any lawyer will give you is “it depends”.  But the answer seems to be yes, if done through fed transfers.

https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/news/general/liberal-pharmacare-plan-has-steep-legal-obstacles-say-lawyers/276144

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1182 on: March 01, 2021, 04:42:57 pm »
The answer any lawyer will give you is “it depends”.  But the answer seems to be yes, if done through fed transfers.

https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/news/general/liberal-pharmacare-plan-has-steep-legal-obstacles-say-lawyers/276144

Feds can transfer money but can they force provinces to implement federal programs without their consent?  I very much doubt that.  I would think just like health care programs the provinces would want to control the programs.

There needs to be a lot of money pumped into provincial health care as it is.  Our healthcare is a joke, it is under-funded and rationed to the point of inhumanity, at least in my neck of the woods.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10723
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1183 on: March 01, 2021, 04:49:31 pm »
I double-dog-dareYa to answer this!  ;D

I asked you first.  Squid's link backs up my claims.  The feds just can't ram something through, the provinces would need to be on board, and from what it seems the provinces would need to implement their own programs and the feds could help fund them.  it needs to be funded by transfers because the feds don't have the constitutional power to make the program themselves.  It's not their jurisdiction.

Quote
“But the provinces are responsible for delivery of health care and already pay for many medicines through existing programs. It will be a political football,” he says.
...
Given Canada’s constitutional division of powers, which assigns almost all health-care responsibility to the provinces and territories, Flood, the University of Ottawa’s Faculty of Law professor and University Research Chair in Health Law and Policy, says the pharmacare plan will need to be funded through federal transfers to the province and territories to be feasible. As federal transfers for health care began at 50 per cent and have sharply decreased over the years, she says the provinces will likely demand guarantees to make certain 10 to 15 years’ worth of funding with annual increases. The provinces and territories would design their systems with certain conditions, including universal coverage for a basket of essential drugs, she says. And for the Canadian Drug Agency to negotiate and purchase those drugs, the provinces will have to agree to delegate that authority to the agency, she says.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1184 on: March 01, 2021, 04:56:01 pm »
Feds can transfer money but can they force provinces to implement federal programs without their consent?  I very much doubt that.  I would think just like health care programs the provinces would want to control the programs.

There needs to be a lot of money pumped into provincial health care as it is.  Our healthcare is a joke, it is under-funded and rationed to the point of inhumanity, at least in my neck of the woods.

Of course they can set standards and conditions for the transfers.  Did you not read the article I linked?