Author Topic: The Trudeau Brand  (Read 65073 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1140 on: February 16, 2021, 12:00:30 am »
1. Relying on Europe was naive, but perhaps understandable.  Relying on China was just stupid, no other way to put it.
2. O'Toole will no doubt be worse, but I agree, it's just about a much deserved time-out.  For years I've seen them as a lesser evil, but the handling of the pandemic has made me realise that we deserve better than 'well, they're not the CPC'. 

Going on a major spending spree was all that the government seemed to do during the crisis.  I can get behind providing a program for those who lost their jobs and even for businesses that were impacted, but spending 60(?) billion for companies without requiring any kind of proof that they actually were impacted, and asking very nicely 'but please don't lay off people' was enraging.  Meanwhile, small businesses are going under every day and/or accumulating 100's thousands of dollars in debt.

Everybody here knows how I feel about Prime Minister Wokeface McCosplay, but I'm not sure what he could have done differently.

The vaccines procurement has not gone well, but personally I think that's as much a Harper, Martin, Chretien, and Mulroney thing as a Trudeau thing.  As a nation we've been content to give away our capabilities in almost every field of manufacture.  We've been willing to spend some amount of money on shipbuilding and aerospace, and we're recently back in the pipeline business as well, after private industry bailed.  In hindsight it's obvious that medical capability is more important to our national security than ships or business jets or even pipelines.  I read that in 2017 the UK committed to increasing their domestic vaccine production capacity,  and the results are beginning to come online now.   It would have been great if we had made the same decision at the same time, but hindsight is 20/20 and I can't criticize Justin for not being psychic.

Probably we as a nation should have taken SARS 2003 as a wakeup call, but we didn't, and there's 4 successive federal governments to blame for that.  But now that we're here I think that the large majority of people would want to see a national strategy for domestic vaccine production. Personally I think there's a case for a crown corporation.


As for CEWS... I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's the one my employer used so that we wouldn't have to lay off our production staff while our office was closed when one of our coworkers tested positive.  Some of us were able to work from home, but our production team couldn't, and they would have been laid off. That was really helpful for our company and my coworkers. I saw that help people first hand. 

When this thing first hit and the government was handing out money left and right, they said that the first priority was to get it done fast so that people wouldn't face hardship. That is the right answer, I think.  While I think we were all a bit worried by the sheer amount of dollars involved, I think it was done with the understanding that we would make sure people didn't starve first, and go look for errors and overpayments and fraud later.

And, I think that we're all grossed out that Bell (and others no doubt) exploited that program to line their pockets, but hopefully it's not too late to claw back some of the money that was taken dishonorably.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1141 on: February 16, 2021, 12:09:55 am »
As a nation we've been content to give away our capabilities in almost every field of manufacture.

you were on a roll with domestic vaccine production (the lack of) but got side-tracked. It's not a Liberal Party thang to work to dismantle/privatize vaccine research and production... that's a Conservative Party thingee - one well documented for history! You can start with the period when Canada was a recognized world leader, only to have Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney move to privatize Connaught Labs! Such a bonehead play...

Offline waldo

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1142 on: February 16, 2021, 12:21:33 am »
As for CEWS... 

And, I think that we're all grossed out that Bell (and others no doubt) exploited that program to line their pockets, but hopefully it's not too late to claw back some of the money that was taken dishonorably.

prominent in the corporate pile-on, per the most recent filings in provincial lobbyist registries, Bell has received $122.9 million, Rogers $82.3 million and Telus $38.6 million in support payments as part of the Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy (CEWS). Of course, warranted scutiny applies when Bell and Telus have announced increases to their annual dividend payouts... and both Bell and Rogers have also laid off workers at their hard-hit media divisions.

as a start: in early February, Nate Erskine-Smith, Liberal MP for Beaches-East York in Toronto, filed a private member's motion calling on the government to compel companies that have received CEWS money to return any equivalent amounts that they paid in dividends or through share buybacks.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1143 on: February 16, 2021, 01:23:53 am »
And the vaccines... no need to go there.  Numbers speak for themselves.

It would be nice if politicians would care more about securing our national interests instead of just what gets them re-elected or what their funders want.  Nice to know our emergency preparedness is trash.

We can blame whomever, I doubt any party is much better or worse on our procurement.  How about getting some patriots in office rather than these careerist stooges.

Our government departments are often slow, lumbering, inefficient masses of bumbling self-serving idiots.  How do you make people give a darn when they don't have to?  When they can just pass the blame around and protect their owns butts?  That whole Phoenix pay disaster is such a typical example.  Do that in the private sector and the company is out of business or would have been fixed REALLY fast.

Pretty sad watching our politicians of all parties sell out this country to the highest bidder, foreign or domestic.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1144 on: February 16, 2021, 09:07:57 am »
He didn't say it was his WIFE, he said it's his "rock".
Conservative rag headline:

"Trudope Dehumanizes Women on Valentine's Day!"

Offline wilber

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1145 on: February 16, 2021, 11:35:41 am »
you were on a roll with domestic vaccine production (the lack of) but got side-tracked. It's not a Liberal Party thang to work to dismantle/privatize vaccine research and production... that's a Conservative Party thingee - one well documented for history! You can start with the period when Canada was a recognized world leader, only to have Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney move to privatize Connaught Labs! Such a bonehead play...

Come on Waldo, the Liberals had 17 years of majority governments since Mulroney to do something about it, the Conservatives have had four. This wasn't on either party's priority list.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1146 on: February 16, 2021, 12:57:48 pm »
Come on Waldo, the Liberals had 17 years of majority governments since Mulroney to do something about it, the Conservatives have had four. This wasn't on either party's priority list.

now do... the Harper years where Harper Conservatives drastically cut funding to research councils; notwithstanding its perpetual 'war on science', muzzling scientists, etc..

but ya, world leading Frappier lab went to British multinational GlaxoSmithKline and Connaught, through a series of mergers, to French multinational Sanofi Pasteur​... thanks Conservative government's privitization zeal!

I've several posts in the main Covid thread detailing the support/funding Trudeau Liberals have provided in support of working to build a domestic vaccine production capability... would you like a replay here?

Offline wilber

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1147 on: February 16, 2021, 01:02:52 pm »

I've several posts in the main Covid thread detailing the support/funding Trudeau Liberals have provided in support of working to build a domestic vaccine production capability... would you like a replay here?

Sure they are because it is good politics right now. It wasn't on their radar 18 months ago. The Liberals demonstrated no interest in domestic vaccine production prior to Covid. The real test will be if governments continue to support it when the present crisis is over.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1148 on: February 16, 2021, 01:03:03 pm »
Come on Waldo, the Liberals had 17 years of majority governments since Mulroney to do something about it, the Conservatives have had four. This wasn't on either party's priority list.
Both parties were equally complicit in pushing Canada towards becoming the hollowed out shell it is today. I've long pointed to Canada's fisheries management as a canary-like indicator of Canada's worsening condition. Liberal and Conservative governments both, without pause, restructured and privatized commercial fisheries according to the prescriptions of the World Bank, IMF and other globalization proponents back in the day with the most telling result being thousands of fishing business and people out of work and BC's richest fisherman controlling some 40% of the quota.

Apparently I'm some sort of communist/fascist for not appreciating that this orchestration of a widening chasm between wealthy powerful interests and ordinary people is a good thing.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 01:04:41 pm by eyeball »
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1149 on: February 16, 2021, 05:41:05 pm »
The vaccine procurement was not bungled. There are 4 plants making the current approved candidates, and we have access to two of them, along with every other country in the world. Things are about to get much better. Vaccinations will be done in June/July.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1150 on: February 17, 2021, 08:58:55 am »
The vaccine procurement was not bungled. There are 4 plants making the current approved candidates, and we have access to two of them, along with every other country in the world. Things are about to get much better. Vaccinations will be done in June/July.

Hopefully that comes true but at this point, Washington state has vaccinated almost as many people as all of Canada.

If the EU had done the same as the US and kept all its production for its own citizens we would be well and truly screwed. It should be painfully clear that there are some things which we cannot allow ourselves to be totally reliant on from others.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 09:09:08 am by wilber »
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1151 on: February 17, 2021, 10:03:30 am »
Hopefully that comes true but at this point, Washington state has vaccinated almost as many people as all of Canada.

If the EU had done the same as the US and kept all its production for its own citizens we would be well and truly screwed. It should be painfully clear that there are some things which we cannot allow ourselves to be totally reliant on from others.

There was no circumstance under which we were making the two currently approved vaccines. They are being made in the US, Belgium, Switzerland, and starting last week, Germany.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1152 on: February 17, 2021, 10:32:21 am »
The vaccine procurement was not bungled. There are 4 plants making the current approved candidates, and we have access to two of them, along with every other country in the world. Things are about to get much better. Vaccinations will be done in June/July.
Like I said before. This "bungled response" is just Conservative propaganda that is not resonating anywhere but internet forums where people call Trudeau stupid names like "Trudope" and say things like "libtards." Most rational people expected there to be hangups with the scale and scope of this program and how quickly they need to roll it out. This is just silly political shots by the CPC to try to score points and it's failing miserably. It's especially stupid since this will all be forgotten once everyone's vaccinated. The CPC would have been better off just supporting the government in the endeavour instead of whining endlessly about absolutely nothing. If they showed unity and support, they may have actually appeared competent. However, they go the route of "you bad, us good" to rile up the mouthbreathers in their base, while continuing to isolate themselves from any other voters.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1153 on: February 17, 2021, 12:50:42 pm »
There was no circumstance under which we were making the two currently approved vaccines. They are being made in the US, Belgium, Switzerland, and starting last week, Germany.

It doesn't matter. We aren't always going to have the latest vaccine or drug but we do need the ability to manufacture them. Several countries are producing the AZ vaccine under license. When we approve it, we will still be relying on other countries to supply us for at least a year. The same goes for all the others in stage 3 trials. We don't ever want be in this position again. If mRNA is the future of vaccines, I'm surprised the federal government has shown such little interest in Providence. I hope that changes.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #1154 on: February 17, 2021, 01:34:11 pm »
It doesn't matter. We aren't always going to have the latest vaccine or drug but we do need the ability to manufacture them. Several countries are producing the AZ vaccine under license. When we approve it, we will still be relying on other countries to supply us for at least a year. The same goes for all the others in stage 3 trials. We don't ever want be in this position again. If mRNA is the future of vaccines, I'm surprised the federal government has shown such little interest in Providence. I hope that changes.

The federal government showed so little interest in them that they funded their phase 1 trials.