Author Topic: The Trudeau Brand  (Read 3073 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #390 on: June 24, 2020, 02:20:23 pm »
There's no doubt that they can. 

How much do you want to pay for that ?  Seriously, if it was coming out of your pocket what would you write a check for, to get rid of our relationship with China ?

I don't want to get rid of our relationship with China, I want to strengthen our leverage in our relations with them, so that when they attempt to screw us they can't do so without repercussions, which will lead to them screwing us less frequently.

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How much do you want to pay for that ?  Seriously, if it was coming out of your pocket what would you write a check for, to get rid of our relationship with China ?
Our national security is worth quite a bit of money.  I'd personally be willing to pay a decent amount not to get effed over by any foreign country.  Some people give their lives for our countries' national security.  A bit of money is nothing.

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To add:
The USA gives exactly ZERO f*cks about us and will not stand up and do anything to protect us either.

No they don't care about us.  But they're getting screwed over and pushed around too by China.  It's in their national interests to team with us and other western countries to put a check on China's power.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline wilber

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #391 on: June 24, 2020, 03:48:20 pm »
There's no doubt that they can. 

How much do you want to pay for that ?  Seriously, if it was coming out of your pocket what would you write a check for, to get rid of our relationship with China ?

How much do you want to pay for that ?  Seriously, if it was coming out of your pocket what would you write a check for, to get rid of our relationship with China ?


How much do you want to pay for that ?  Seriously, if it was coming out of your pocket what would you write a check for, to get rid of our relationship with China ?



What are you willing to give up to maintain that "relationship"?


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To add:
The USA gives exactly ZERO f*cks about us and will not stand up and do anything to protect us either.

Then I guess we will have to do it ourselves.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 04:51:24 pm by wilber »
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Offline MH

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #392 on: June 24, 2020, 09:10:54 pm »
What are you willing to give up to maintain that "relationship"?

Well, we're giving it up now.  Silence on human rights, trade deficit...

Offline MH

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #393 on: June 24, 2020, 09:14:03 pm »
I don't want to get rid of our relationship with China, I want to strengthen our leverage in our relations with them, so that when they attempt to screw us they can't do so without repercussions, which will lead to them screwing us less frequently.

This is kind of mealy, with respect.  This is what Trump says "I'll get a better deal from China"... did he get one ?  Not really.

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Our national security is worth quite a bit of money.  I'd personally be willing to pay a decent amount not to get effed over by any foreign country.  Some people give their lives for our countries' national security.  A bit of money is nothing.

So would you pay an extra $1000 a year ?  $2000 ?

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No they don't care about us.  But they're getting screwed over and pushed around too by China. 

It's basic to say they are getting 'Screwed Over' by China.  They trade with us, we invest in them, they buy from us.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #394 on: June 24, 2020, 09:33:45 pm »
This is kind of mealy, with respect.  This is what Trump says "I'll get a better deal from China"... did he get one ?  Not really.

At least he stands up to them, and North Korea, and Iran.  And has done it without any wars.  The guy has his problems domestically, but props to his foreign policy.  Every other modern POTUS has been a total sell-out to China, on behalf on their big corporate donors.  Name the last POTUS who has dropped fewer missiles and bombs than Trump?  Since WWII, maybe Carter?  But his foreign policy wasn't very good.

Nobody with a straight face can say China pushes Trump around.  Can't say the same for the Liberal Party of Canada.

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So would you pay an extra $1000 a year ?  $2000 ?
I'd pay $1000 a year to put a check on China's power, yes.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #395 on: June 24, 2020, 09:34:35 pm »
Then I guess we will have to do it ourselves.

If we have to we must.  Not sure the point if many other allies countries are going through similar.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #396 on: June 25, 2020, 01:36:01 am »
Any country can be the source of disease outbreak, so that doesn't make sense.

Any country could, but China seems to have them more often than others.  Scientists have been saying since the 2003 SARS that China's wet markets and illegal trafficking in wild animals are a recipe for disaster.

But that's not even the main point. The main point is that while any country could have a disease outbreak, it's much less likely that two or more countries are shut down by disease outbreaks at the same time.  If your production line in China is quarantined,  your line in India might still be going.  Even with this pandemic, where everybody got shut down eventually, I believe that by the time India instituted their own lockdown, China's lockdown was already finished.

TBH the fact that 3M was able to still export masks is a strong vote for global trade COOPERATION.

I think the fact that global supplies of many products were heavily impacted by the situation in China is a strong vote for supply chain diversification.

There's no doubt that they can. 

How much do you want to pay for that ?  Seriously, if it was coming out of your pocket what would you write a check for, to get rid of our relationship with China ?

Is this check we're writing based on the premise that consumer goods would become more expensive?  Because there are actually lots of competitively priced products that don't come from China.  A lot of our textiles come from India and Bangladesh. A lot of our consumer electronics are manufactured in Korea or Vietnam or Malaysia.  If we're looking for cheap labor and dubious environmental practices to exploit, China isn't the only game in town.

It seems to me that China's main threat is that they will stop buying our lumber and agricultural products... but they're already turning that screw during this Meng Wanzhou dispute.

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Offline MH

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #397 on: June 25, 2020, 12:57:33 pm »
At least he stands up to them, and North Korea, and Iran.  And has done it without any wars.  The guy has his problems domestically, but props to his foreign policy. 

Who cares ?  If it doesn't create a result you are rewarding superficial puff, which is all this president has to offer.

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Every other modern POTUS has been a total sell-out to China, on behalf on their big corporate donors. 

Those are American corporations.  You think he cares about people more than corporations ?   

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I'd pay $1000 a year to put a check on China's power, yes.

Ok - well at least you would put your money where your mouth is.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #398 on: June 25, 2020, 06:45:23 pm »
Who cares ?  If it doesn't create a result you are rewarding superficial puff, which is all this president has to offer.

It has created results:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/15/business/economy/china-trade-deal.html

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Those are American corporations.  You think he cares about people more than corporations ?   

Do you see him selling out American jobs to global interests?

One example is he slapped tariffs on Canadian steel imports to try to bring jobs back to America. 

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Ok - well at least you would put your money where your mouth is.

How much money would you be willing to save every year to sell out Canada's national interests to an aggressive adversarial totalitarian country?
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline JMT

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #399 on: June 25, 2020, 07:03:16 pm »
Trump has failed at almost every diplomatic and business move he's made - ever.
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Offline MH

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #400 on: June 25, 2020, 07:46:31 pm »
Any country could, but China seems to have them more often than others.  Scientists have been saying since the 2003 SARS that China's wet markets and illegal trafficking in wild animals are a recipe for disaster.

Fair point.

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But that's not even the main point. The main point is that while any country could have a disease outbreak, it's much less likely that two or more countries are shut down by disease outbreaks at the same time.  If your production line in China is quarantined,  your line in India might still be going.  Even with this pandemic, where everybody got shut down eventually, I believe that by the time India instituted their own lockdown, China's lockdown was already finished.

Ok but companies will likely see the wisdom in that themselves and make a better network... as part of regular DR (Disaster Recovery) risk assessment.

or... they will see the recent situation as a 'black swan' and deem it unnecessary to do that.

 
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Is this check we're writing based on the premise that consumer goods would become more expensive? 

And that we would be all have less money, also.

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Because there are actually lots of competitively priced products that don't come from China.  A lot of our textiles come from India and Bangladesh. A lot of our consumer electronics are manufactured in Korea or Vietnam or Malaysia.  If we're looking for cheap labor and dubious environmental practices to exploit, China isn't the only game in town.

But it's not up to us to tell Apple to move to Bangladesh, right ? 

I want to know what "stand up to China" means when we're talking about a country with a giant economy that is 20X our size and who frankly doesn't listen.  What exactly are we using to bargain with them ?


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It seems to me that China's main threat is that they will stop buying our lumber and agricultural products... but they're already turning that screw during this Meng Wanzhou dispute.
 

And it costs us.  Our relationships with every government on earth involve trade-offs.   I feel I have to point that out when people start talking about getting tough with China.  Seems to me that Trump was in the best position to do that, and he didn't come away with much if anything.

Offline MH

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #401 on: June 25, 2020, 07:57:22 pm »
It has created results:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/15/business/economy/china-trade-deal.html

This deal was a little strange, but granted it was a new deal.  It seems to not be going well though.

I encourage you to listen to this:

https://www.tradetalkspodcast.com/podcast/118-ins-and-outs-of-the-us-china-phase-one-trade-deal/

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Do you see him selling out American jobs to global interests?

Let's keep in mind that my note was in response to your point about presidents kowtowing to corporations.  Trump still loves American corporations but - yes - he wants to bring jobs back.  Can he do it ?  In a word: no.

 
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How much money would you be willing to save every year to sell out Canada's national interests to an aggressive adversarial totalitarian country?

I already answered this: we are living it now.  We have lived it for a long time.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #402 on: June 26, 2020, 05:52:50 pm »
I already answered this: we are living it now.  We have lived it for a long time.

How does it feel to be a sellout?

Personally, not so good.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Rue

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Re: The Trudeau Brand
« Reply #403 on: June 29, 2020, 02:47:51 pm »
So yet another thread that strayed completely from the subject.

THE TRUDEAU BRAND.

Lol of course the pro Trudeau patoots won't discuss it.

One word for the brand:

PANDER
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