Author Topic: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform  (Read 397 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2017, 04:11:50 pm »
I think of this the way I think of Australian Republicanism.  Most Australians want to be a republic and not a kingdom.  They can't agree on what kind of republic they'd like to be though, so a kingdom they remain.


Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2017, 12:00:08 pm »
I sometimes wonder if he should have his own political party.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2017, 12:07:54 pm »
Sounds like he wants to control who gets to run for Parliament by remote. Considering the amount of power we give party leaders, if Leitch wins the leadership, she will effectively have her own party
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 12:21:29 pm by wilber »
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2017, 12:38:32 pm »
Sounds like he wants to control who gets to run for Parliament by remote. Considering the amount of power we give party leaders, if Leitch wins the leadership, she will effectively have her own party

She won't. She has no charisma. But a person with charisma could do very, very well running with a reasonable immigration proposal like Lietch's, and maybe Trudeau knows that. And given the poll taken on her values question showed 60% support from Liberal and NDP supporters not all of the votes would be from conservatives.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2017, 12:52:20 pm »
Possibly but essentially Trudeau is saying he has always believed in the status quo, regardless of what he may have said about reform. Millennials have figured that out. So, was the last election a one off or will voting rates continue to decline among young people?
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Offline poochy

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2017, 01:59:37 pm »
Apparently the whole two years or more that they promised and 'worked' on this they were completely ignorant of the fringe party issue, which in fact, isn't much of an issue.  Lying then, lying now, incompetent then, or now, whatever. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Scotland, horrible, unmanageable places.  Imagine how much better they would be if they had a ranked ballot instead of PR, Trudeau it seems, was imagining that very thing. 

Offline bcsapper

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2017, 03:27:15 pm »
Apparently the whole two years or more that they promised and 'worked' on this they were completely ignorant of the fringe party issue, which in fact, isn't much of an issue.  Lying then, lying now, incompetent then, or now, whatever. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Scotland, horrible, unmanageable places.  Imagine how much better they would be if they had a ranked ballot instead of PR, Trudeau it seems, was imagining that very thing.

I don't know about Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany or Switzerland.  I don't think they're that bad.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2017, 03:51:08 pm »
Now he's doing it to keep the likes of Leitch out of Parliament, eh? 

First, if enough people want Leitch to represent them in Parliament, so be it.  As much as I don't agree with her, I don't think Trudeau should be daddy dearest in what's best for us all.

Second, what a sad pathetic excuse.  This is not about Leitch, it's about all the votes he'd lose to NDP and Greens. 

I think everyone from the more fringe left to the most fringe right should be proportionally represented.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2017, 05:15:25 pm »
Now that he is in power, he is OK with reform as long as it doesn't change anything but hasn't figured out how to do it. So it isn't happening.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2017, 05:11:27 am »
Apparently the whole two years or more that they promised and 'worked' on this they were completely ignorant of the fringe party issue, which in fact, isn't much of an issue.  Lying then, lying now, incompetent then, or now, whatever. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Scotland, horrible, unmanageable places.  Imagine how much better they would be if they had a ranked ballot instead of PR, Trudeau it seems, was imagining that very thing.

This is it, really.

There's good arguments to be made against proportional representation... the fringe-party aspect being the most obvious.  But these were well-known long before he made the election promise. We talked about fringe parties in European parliaments when I was in high school. For him to trot that out now like it's a recent thing that he's stumbled upon due to Kellie Leitch... is just embarrassingly disingenuous.


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Offline TimG

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2017, 04:03:23 pm »
There's good arguments to be made against proportional representation... the fringe-party aspect being the most obvious.  But these were well-known long before he made the election promise. We talked about fringe parties in European parliaments when I was in high school. For him to trot that out now like it's a recent thing that he's stumbled upon due to Kellie Leitch... is just embarrassingly disingenuous.
To be fair he probably thought that he would simply adopt ranked ballots which does not have the fringe party problem. He did not expect the push back on the need for a referendum which made ensuring ranked ballots would be the choice much tougher.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2017, 07:13:54 pm »
Ranked ballots is not PR.

Offline poochy

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2017, 11:55:28 pm »
To be fair he probably thought that he would simply adopt ranked ballots which does not have the fringe party problem. He did not expect the push back on the need for a referendum which made ensuring ranked ballots would be the choice much tougher.

If you set a minimum vote threshold with PR it does not have a fringe party issue, that's just bs, but you can bet that if ranked ballots had that issue and were also still very good for liberals he would have welcomed it anyway.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2017, 07:39:11 am »
If you set a minimum vote threshold with PR it does not have a fringe party issue, that's just bs, but you can bet that if ranked ballots had that issue and were also still very good for liberals he would have welcomed it anyway.
PR with 10% would be a reasonable threshold but we would most likely be stuck with 2-3%. I would not want to risk it.