Author Topic: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform  (Read 397 times)

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2017, 09:57:50 pm »
Maybe, but I doubt it. Politicos were already noting and Elections Canada themselves informed him that he had to act quickly. Then he dragged his feet. The MyDemocracy.ca questionnaire that went out was awful, in terms of estimating the electorate's sentiments about electoral reform. It was a brilliant survey if it was designed so that the government could read any interpretation it wanted into it. As someone who's intimately familiar with survey design and data analysis, I can tell you that's exactly what that survey was.  That's what makes me think he never did intend on bringing about electoral reform.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2017, 09:59:48 pm »
I think a bit differently - I think that he thought it would be easy.  I think he thought running the country would be easy to be honest.  I actually think that's the only thing he has in common with Donald Trump.  Not many things are easy - certainly not that.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2017, 10:13:35 pm »
You would think he would have some idea of the difficulties of running a country. His dad had to invoke the War Measures Act and all.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2017, 10:14:36 pm »
I think he's naive. 

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2017, 10:18:31 pm »
The cynic in me suspects that their enthusiasm for changing FPTP probably diminished considerably when FPTP gave them a majority government with a plurality of popular support.

Then again, maybe the response to their attempts at public engagement on the topic was so underwhelming that maybe they just decided it was more trouble than it was worth.

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Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2017, 10:19:47 pm »
I think it's a little of both, to be honest with you.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2017, 10:22:43 pm »
Then again, maybe the response to their attempts at public engagement on the topic was so underwhelming that maybe they just decided it was more trouble than it was worth.

 -k
The committee on electoral reform seemed to have a lot of positive input that they ignored. I remember them losing their shit on the last minister for insulting the work that they did.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2017, 10:25:55 pm »
I also love that they still have this on their website.

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/electoral-reform/

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2017, 10:26:45 pm »
You're right cyber, their own MPs ripped them a new one.  They worked through the summer for nothing, they felt.

Offline Peter F

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2017, 11:18:05 pm »
Yes, I think Kimmy is on to something here:
"Then again, maybe the response to their attempts at public engagement on the topic was so underwhelming that maybe they just decided it was more trouble than it was worth."
Time has passed and coming up with a functioning system in time for the next election - not to mention all the bitching and complaining about the final result - was just a bit more that Trudeau is willing to take on right now.
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Offline Blueblood

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2017, 01:58:16 am »
What I don't understand is if they wanted ranked balloting that would have given them majorities almost in perpetuity.  Maybe I'm wondering if the Supreme Court would say that if something like that were passed that there would have to be a referendum on the matter.
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Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2017, 03:51:51 am »
PR as opposed to FPTP causes greater partisanship, not less.  It causes more dictatorial party control.  You need only look at some of the countries that use it.

It's not unusual for a politician to include a certain group as his "winning coalition" based on a promise made during an election, then reshuffle the deck of potential supporters by totally abandoning that policy.  Same thing that happens in dictatorships, really but without all the noise of gunfire.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2017, 07:07:25 am »
What I don't understand is if they wanted ranked balloting that would have given them majorities almost in perpetuity.  Maybe I'm wondering if the Supreme Court would say that if something like that were passed that there would have to be a referendum on the matter.

Ha, I went to reply and almost edited your post - not used to having so many buttons.

Anyway, I don't see how that would have been the case, since the things not mentioned in the constitution are under parliamentary supremacy.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2017, 07:45:32 am »
What I don't understand is if they wanted ranked balloting that would have given them majorities almost in perpetuity.  Maybe I'm wondering if the Supreme Court would say that if something like that were passed that there would have to be a referendum on the matter.
This is a really good point that I didn't consider. If they wanted to mess with the system, they could have put into place ranked balloting that would have certainly benefitted them. Perhaps they thought better of it, since people can't agree on the system. If they pushed their own system, they may have paid for it at the polls, undermining the benefit that they would have gotten from it.

Offline poochy

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2017, 09:49:53 am »
I have to say that in the beginning i wasn't much of a fan of this idea, but as i listened more it seemed that there are some types of PR that would be good. Anyway, i suppose it wouldn't be 100% true to say that no reform is a big deal to me, the fact that they made this huge promise and never really seemed interested in following through, is.  I expect that if a ranked ballot was recommended they would have happily followed through, and while affirmation of personal bias in politics is easy to achieve I can't say im surprised that beneath the veneer lies the same old cynical liberals.