Author Topic: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform  (Read 397 times)

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Offline JMT

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The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« on: February 01, 2017, 08:57:29 pm »
Today, Justin Trudeau decided (again); promise made, promise broken.  I actually don't care all that much about broken promises, personally.  I care about good government.  That said, there are many people who voted for their first time based on promises like this.  What are your thoughts?

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guest4

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2017, 09:02:35 pm »
I think he lost my vote, but that may also depend on what the options are at the time.   Not interested in giving an opening for a Canadian Trump.   

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 09:05:44 pm »
Personally, for me, it's very early to be talking about who I'm going to vote for.  I actually wasn't all that in favour of electoral reform, so for me, it's not a big deal.

guest4

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 09:13:41 pm »
Why not?   Surely there's a better way than our current system, where votes more accurately reflect what voters actually want.   I'd also like the politicians to be a little less partisan, and I think a system that wasn't quite so 'winner take all' would help.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2017, 09:16:48 pm »
My problem is this, generally - I like stability.  I like our current system because it provides stability.  On the other hand, it also provides for a quasi dictatorship that would allow someone like a Trump to take complete control.

I'd actually like to see us go where the UK and Australia are, by giving individual MPs within a caucus far more power over the leadership.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2017, 09:18:43 pm »
To be honest, I think that governing and reality has been hard for Trudeau.  I don't think he said a lot of things intending to not follow through.  I think reality has very much set in for him.

guest4

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 09:22:04 pm »
Your reason is interesting, although I'm not sure why changing a voting system would lead to instability.  Is the instability you would be concerned about related to the economy, or social issues, or maybe both?   

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 09:24:13 pm »
It's more about risking turning into something like Israel or Italy in terms of governing.  Of course, there are good examples too - the German Federal Republic being the first that comes to mind.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 09:26:19 pm »
I'm not overly concerned with the results, as I'm happy enough with FPTP. It was rather blatant though.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 09:27:48 pm »
Yeah, it really was.  They really could have massaged their message better

guest4

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2017, 09:28:04 pm »
Having trouble figuring out the quote function.   Anyway, yah, I think JT was (is?) rather idealistic, one of the reasons I voted for him.   I think most, or maybe only many, politicians do intend to keep promises, but politics makes it impossible.   


guest4

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2017, 09:31:12 pm »
It's more about risking turning into something like Israel or Italy in terms of governing.  Of course, there are good examples too - the German Federal Republic being the first that comes to mind.
Looks like I figured out the quote function.    Ok, so forgive me for being ignorant, but I do not know what the difference between those systems would be.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2017, 09:33:53 pm »
I think you're right - he's a bit too much of an idealist.  That's why he's ended up with relatively so many broken promises.

Italy and Israel have generally been very very unstable.  They've had elections very close together and have had real trouble forming governments at times.  Another example of that is Belgium, where it has at times taken more than a year to cobble a government together.  This comes from having a fractured populace - something that I feel Canada has when we're talking about language and regionalism.  Germany is far more homogenous.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2017, 09:48:05 pm »
I never expected him to follow through with it. However, I was hopeful because he was so damn adamant about it. That's what I find so strange now. Why would he be so clear (saying things like "this will be the last election under FPTP") only to abandon it later? Lesson learned for the people who voted for him, I guess.

guest4

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Re: The Abandonment of Electoral Reform
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2017, 09:51:56 pm »
Why would he be so clear (saying things like "this will be the last election under FPTP") only to abandon it later? Lesson learned for the people who voted for him, I guess.

Maybe he really thought he could do it?