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Author Topic: Targetting Muslims  (Read 674 times)

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Offline Peter F

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2017, 04:03:22 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on October 14, 2017, 10:48:05 am
Canadian law uses the same definition as the UNHCR. Tell me how they qualify under that definition.

I suggest you talk to the claimant to see if they meet the requirements of the laws. Or are you suggesting no claims allowed?  We allow refugee claims in accordance with the UN but under no circumstances is anyone allowed to actually make the claim?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 04:05:37 pm by Peter F »
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Offline JMT

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2017, 04:30:30 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on October 14, 2017, 02:31:26 pm
No it doesn't. The Charter means we have to give them a fair hearing to see if they meet the UN definition of refugees. There's nothing in there that says we are required to allow everybody on Earth who wants to live here to do so if their country is a shithole.

If a country isn’t considered by us to be safe, we don’t deport to there - end of story.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2017, 06:22:59 pm »
Quote from: Peter F on October 14, 2017, 04:03:22 pm
I suggest you talk to the claimant to see if they meet the requirements of the laws. Or are you suggesting no claims allowed?  We allow refugee claims in accordance with the UN but under no circumstances is anyone allowed to actually make the claim?

You realize that in most cases we have no way to validate any such claims, right? I mean, all we get is a story. And people can tell any story they want. We give everyone a hearing. If someone has actual evidence to show that they meet the definition, then fine, but in most cases they don't. Let's look at Haiti as an example, with the definition in mind.

A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion

Well, there's no fighting going on there. Everyone is the same race, religion and nationality. That basically leaves persecution for political opinion.But the place is mostly run by the UN, without a president. Let's also not forget where most of these Haitians, came from. They were allowed to stay in the US for a couple of years, not because they were persecuted but because of the earthquake, as a humanitarian gesture. Now it's time to go home and, unsurprisingly, they don't wanna go. Who would?
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2017, 06:30:33 pm »
Quote from: JMT on October 14, 2017, 04:30:30 pm
If a country isn’t considered by us to be safe, we don’t deport to there - end of story.

You have this habit of assuming that your word is the word of God from on high. It's often combined with not really know what you're talking about, which makes it twice as silly. We deport people to lots of countries that aren't all that safe.  http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada/2014/08/20/canada-deports-more-than-10000-each-year-some-to-wars-and-repressive-regimes.html

As for Somalia, according to press reports what's happening is fairly well-off (by local standards) Somali families were paying to send their sons on a roundabout trip to get to Canada so he can claim refugee status, get citizenship with well-rehearsed stories, and then sponsor the rest of them over. I doubt that was what the refugee system was designed for. Note that they could stop anywhere along the way, in Brazil, in Mexico, but they want to come to rich countries with welfare systems.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2017, 07:52:04 pm »
In my view (and the view of the law) those 500 people should never have been sent back.  A moratorium is a moratorium.  The government should have to follow its own laws.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2017, 08:41:55 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on October 14, 2017, 06:22:59 pm
You realize that in most cases we have no way to validate any such claims, right?
You don’t think the govt has any way to determine if a country is safe? That’s a weird position.
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Offline Peter F

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2017, 12:46:37 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on October 14, 2017, 06:22:59 pm
You realize that in most cases we have no way to validate any such claims, right? I mean, all we get is a story. And people can tell any story they want. We give everyone a hearing. If someone has actual evidence to show that they meet the definition, then fine, but in most cases they don't. Let's look at Haiti as an example, with the definition in mind.

A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion

Well, there's no fighting going on there. Everyone is the same race, religion and nationality. That basically leaves persecution for political opinion.But the place is mostly run by the UN, without a president. Let's also not forget where most of these Haitians, came from. They were allowed to stay in the US for a couple of years, not because they were persecuted but because of the earthquake, as a humanitarian gesture. Now it's time to go home and, unsurprisingly, they don't wanna go. Who would?

...so what you are saying is that "If someone has actual evidence to show that they meet the definition, then fine" right?  me too.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2017, 09:29:04 pm »
Quote from: JMT on October 14, 2017, 07:52:04 pm
In my view (and the view of the law) those 500 people should never have been sent back.  A moratorium is a moratorium.  The government should have to follow its own laws.

This is why the Left **** everything up. They let their emotions run away from them and go "Awww, look at the poor puppy!"

No one every thinks of the future. No one ever thinks of the complexities of a situation. Idiot Trudeau smugly talks about how open we are and tens of thousands of third world people rush to our borders. Many have criminal records. Few have any real skills. Most will spend their lives on welfare here. Tens and hundreds of thousands of people coming into a country which has no future for low skilled people. And once the low skill jobs we DO have disappear over the coming years, what then?  You are risking creating a country full of poverty and violence just to make yourself feel good about what a nice guy you are.

And don't talk about the law when you clearly don't even read the cite or understand the law. There is no moratorium on sending people to Somalia.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 09:41:14 pm by SirJohn »
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2017, 09:31:03 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on October 14, 2017, 08:41:55 pm
You don’t think the govt has any way to determine if a country is safe? That’s a weird position.

And again, you are completely ignoring what the law says on who qualifies as being a refugee. Being from a violent, shithole country does not make one a refugee under the international or Canadian definitions. Are the people of Haiti being persecuted because of their race, religion, ethnicity or political beliefs? No? Then they're not refugees.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2017, 07:18:15 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on October 15, 2017, 09:29:04 pm
And don't talk about the law when you clearly don't even read the cite or understand the law. There is no moratorium on sending people to Somalia.

That's surprising (I was under the impression it was one of the countries - my error).  If we say that a country is unsafe as a destination for deportation, then we should follow our own determination.  It has nothing to do with emotions or any of the other things you want to grand stand about.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2017, 09:39:53 am »
Quote from: JMT on October 16, 2017, 07:18:15 am
That's surprising (I was under the impression it was one of the countries - my error).  If we say that a country is unsafe as a destination for deportation, then we should follow our own determination.  It has nothing to do with emotions or any of the other things you want to grand stand about.

Somalia isn't deemed entirely unsafe as far as I know, but parts of it are and we can't send failed refugee claimants to those areas.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Targetting Muslims
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2017, 10:17:19 am »
Quote from: DuckFace on October 16, 2017, 09:39:53 am
Somalia isn't deemed entirely unsafe as far as I know, but parts of it are and we can't send failed refugee claimants to those areas.

Yes, that might be where my error originated.
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