Author Topic: No llores por mí Alberta  (Read 7105 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #810 on: October 20, 2020, 08:47:47 pm »
What does any of that have to do with oil helping us through the recession?  You're the revisionist, you don't like oil and will spin things accordingly any way you can because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Oil is dirty, it would be better if it never existed and we all drove electric cars, but it has helped our economy, those are facts.

I'm certainly not alone in that opinion. Oil was helpful if you were invested in oil. Otherwise, it wasn't:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/10/dutch-disease-canada_n_5798954.html
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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #811 on: October 20, 2020, 11:02:57 pm »
I'm certainly not alone in that opinion. Oil was helpful if you were invested in oil. Otherwise, it wasn't:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/10/dutch-disease-canada_n_5798954.html

Of course it was. Any time you bought something that was imported or had an imported content, you benefited from a higher dollar.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #812 on: October 20, 2020, 11:06:19 pm »
Of course it was. Any time you bought something that was imported or had an imported content, you benefited from a higher dollar.

When you factor in the cleanup and environmental costs that all of us will be paying for the rest of our lives, it's dubious at best.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #813 on: October 20, 2020, 11:10:50 pm »
When you factor in the cleanup and environmental costs that all of us will be paying for the rest of our lives, it's dubious at best.

People don’t ever consider environmental costs, human health costs, etc when looking at these things.  They see that it costs them $1.20 per litre and they think that’s it.

Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #814 on: October 20, 2020, 11:36:53 pm »
When you factor in the cleanup and environmental costs that all of us will be paying for the rest of our lives, it's dubious at best.

Maybe but you have already benefited from it for your whole life so it is a bit late to start complaining.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #815 on: October 21, 2020, 02:36:38 pm »
You can dumb it if you want squid but no one was complaining about the hundreds of billions in federal revenues that were coming out of Alberta over the past fifty years to get spread around in other provinces.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline the_squid

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #816 on: October 21, 2020, 02:38:29 pm »
You can dumb it if you want squid but no one was complaining about the hundreds of billions in federal revenues that were coming out of Alberta over the past fifty years to get spread around in other provinces.

Sure...   ignorance is bliss.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #817 on: October 21, 2020, 03:44:36 pm »
I'm certainly not alone in that opinion. Oil was helpful if you were invested in oil. Otherwise, it wasn't:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/10/dutch-disease-canada_n_5798954.html

Good for GDP, good for the TSX, good for RRSP's, good for the dollar, good for importers, good for tax revenue, good for equalization payments.  Every Canadian has been invested in oil because it helped government revenues.  If you don't like oil that's fine, but saying it hasn't been good for our economy is just delusional nonsense.

Saying our economy and oil exports were so good and it make the dollar go up so it hurt some sectors like manufacturing & other exporters is fine, but the fact is it helped our economy overall.  The dollar goes up because our economy is seen as more desirable to invest than the US economy.  The price of oil made our dollar go up because we make a lot of money off oil exports while the US economy was in the tank.  Spin it anyway you want, those are the cold hard facts.  But they don't agree with your ideology, so keep spinning away.

https://hillnotes.ca/2018/09/26/the-canadian-dollar-what-determines-the-exchange-rate/
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #818 on: October 21, 2020, 04:05:03 pm »
When you factor in the cleanup and environmental costs that all of us will be paying for the rest of our lives, it's dubious at best.

Then calculate it.  What are the cleanup costs?  The oil sands contribute what, like around 0.2% to global GHG emissions, so add that to the costs.  Just saying "Baaahhh oil is dirty, it's a wash" is not evidence.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #819 on: October 21, 2020, 06:59:54 pm »
Good for GDP, good for the TSX, good for RRSP's, good for the dollar, good for importers, good for tax revenue, good for equalization payments.  Every Canadian has been invested in oil because it helped government revenues.  If you don't like oil that's fine, but saying it hasn't been good for our economy is just delusional nonsense.

Saying our economy and oil exports were so good and it make the dollar go up so it hurt some sectors like manufacturing & other exporters is fine, but the fact is it helped our economy overall.  The dollar goes up because our economy is seen as more desirable to invest than the US economy.  The price of oil made our dollar go up because we make a lot of money off oil exports while the US economy was in the tank.  Spin it anyway you want, those are the cold hard facts.  But they don't agree with your ideology, so keep spinning away.

https://hillnotes.ca/2018/09/26/the-canadian-dollar-what-determines-the-exchange-rate/

Some people made more money. Some people didn't. I've made far more money since the pandemic started than ever before. I guess that means everyone did.

We made money off of oil at the time. In the long run, it cost us jobs and hollowed out other sectors due to an overinflated dollar. Those are also facts that can't be argued with.

As for the cleanup costs - they've been estimated at anywhere from $50 to $260B, and could take up to 2800 years (yes, you read that right).  Alberta is responsible for a (far) larger total share, never mind per capita, of Canada's greenhgouse gases than the next highest Ontario.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #820 on: October 21, 2020, 07:04:47 pm »
Some people made more money. Some people didn't. I've made far more money since the pandemic started than ever before. I guess that means everyone did.

I'm not saying everyone made more, i'm saying the Canadian economy did. 
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #821 on: October 21, 2020, 07:05:53 pm »
I'm not saying everyone made more, i'm saying the Canadian economy did.

And I'm saying that the net benefit over time just isn't that clear.
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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #822 on: October 21, 2020, 07:46:41 pm »
Some people made more money. Some people didn't. I've made far more money since the pandemic started than ever before. I guess that means everyone did.

We made money off of oil at the time. In the long run, it cost us jobs and hollowed out other sectors due to an overinflated dollar. Those are also facts that can't be argued with.

As for the cleanup costs - they've been estimated at anywhere from $50 to $260B, and could take up to 2800 years (yes, you read that right).  Alberta is responsible for a (far) larger total share, never mind per capita, of Canada's greenhgouse gases than the next highest Ontario.

So if we make a lot of money off some other commodity or industry that inflates our dollar and hollows out other sectors that will be OK, or is it only just oil.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC