Author Topic: So are you a racist if you question migration, immigration or diversity?  (Read 984 times)

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Offline chilipeppers

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Trump was elected by the xenophobes and racists, and not by the majority of American people. And no matter how many stupid statements their boy issues, those dopes still support him.

And as a sidebar, Trump must be pooping in his little pants today.
I don't say much here, but this I couldn't let pass...   you are so wrong about xenophobes and racists electing him.  People have just had enough of political correctness and ILLEGAL migration.   There is nothing racist in questioning illegal migrations and the costs. 

Offline Omni

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I don't say much here, but this I couldn't let pass...   you are so wrong about xenophobes and racists electing him.  People have just had enough of political correctness and ILLEGAL migration.   There is nothing racist in questioning illegal migrations and the costs.

Is there anything racist about threatening to "throw all the Muslim's out of the country", or "Mexicans are rapists, they're murderers, but maybe some are nice people", in the same way that the Neo Nazis in Charlottesvile are "nice people"? People may not have paid enough attention to realize what an **** Trump was when it came time to cast a ballot in 2016, but if they don't realize it by now, then they're just a **** dumb.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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So are you a racist if you question migration, immigration or diversity?
The answer is 'no' but ... also the people who most often do this have inarticulate arguments, or - at worst - no argument other than personal distaste.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:32:20 pm by MH »

Offline Omni

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The answer is 'no' but ... also the people who most often do this have inarticulate arguments, or - at worst - no argument other than personal distaste.

"NO"? I guess for instance if you want to try and flog that old screed that Muslim's aren't a race and all that crap you could attempt to make that argument, however I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is even aware of the facts and just hates any woman who wears a head covering and or has brown skin. I'm sure SOME Mexicans are rapists, as are some pasty white honkies, but I'm sure we all know where Trump was going with that little part of his speech. Attacks against reporters have increased since Donald named them "the enemy of the people" so I suspect he knows the influence of his words from the podium so don't try and make flimsy excuses for this twit.

Offline Michael Hardner

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"NO"? I guess for instance if you want to try and flog that old screed that Muslim's aren't a race and all that crap you could attempt to make that argument, however I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is even aware of the facts and just hates any woman who wears a head covering and or has brown skin. I'm sure SOME Mexicans are rapists, as are some pasty white honkies, but I'm sure we all know where Trump was going with that little part of his speech. Attacks against reporters have increased since Donald named them "the enemy of the people" so I suspect he knows the influence of his words from the podium so don't try and make flimsy excuses for this twit.

Do you think David Suzuki is a racist ?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Bringing this back to the OP a bit, I think Trump comes at the far end of things where it's easy to call him a racist because, well, he can sure act like one sometimes, and yes he has a fair chunk of his base support are racists too. 

But when someone who is against illegal immigration is immediately (without just evidence) lumped in with Trump and his kind of thinking and are labeled racist, xenophobe etc. like Trudeau did to that heckler, well there's a danger in that.  It's just lazy stereotyping and demonizing, and it makes it VERY difficult to discuss these important issues civilly because people are very afraid to be labeled those stereotypes. Just look at what happened to Maxine Bernier.  I can see why people can rush to make those judgements, because these are very emotional issues, but it doesn't make it right

These are important issues we need to discuss openly.  If people are denied that, eventually people will get fed up of staying silent and there will be a backlash, and we're starting to see that.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Michael Hardner

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These are important issues we need to discuss openly.  If people are denied that, eventually people will get fed up of staying silent and there will be a backlash, and we're starting to see that.

Sure, but we can also remove people from the conversation who don't come to it with clean hands.

Offline Omni

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Bringing this back to the OP a bit, I think Trump comes at the far end of things where it's easy to call him a racist because, well, he can sure act like one sometimes, and yes he has a fair chunk of his base support are racists too. 

But when someone who is against illegal immigration is immediately (without just evidence) lumped in with Trump and his kind of thinking and are labeled racist, xenophobe etc. like Trudeau did to that heckler, well there's a danger in that.  It's just lazy stereotyping and demonizing, and it makes it VERY difficult to discuss these important issues civilly because people are very afraid to be labeled those stereotypes. Just look at what happened to Maxine Bernier.  I can see why people can rush to make those judgements, because these are very emotional issues, but it doesn't make it right

These are important issues we need to discuss openly.  If people are denied that, eventually people will get fed up of staying silent and there will be a backlash, and we're starting to see that.

Agreed immigration is a process that needs to be regulated and we have various institutions in place to do that. But when you have the influx of people taking the risk of illegal border jumping maybe we should take a look at why. Of course there are those who simply say it's simply some nefarious attempt to have a better life and leave it at that. But I suggest for instance that a lot of Syrians didn't just jump into the Med. because they were seeking greener pastures, maybe they were getting away from the bombs that Trump's buddy Putin keeps dropping on them. And how often has America **** and pillaged in South America? I'm willing to bet most of those folks would be happy to stay home if it was safe to do so.

Offline Omni

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Do you think David Suzuki is a racist ?

Um, not sure where you're trying to go with that one.

Offline Michael Hardner

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"NO"? 


Ahhh.... well sorry I was actually answering the question in the OP, or subject, not your post.

Offline wilber

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Just a guess but I imagine farming would be one industry that would be hit hard by the scenario you mention; either the kids have other plans or, the folks are getting older and didn't have kids, which is a country wide situation. I'm not aware of how many immigrants have farming skills but I like milk on my cereal in the morning so lets find 'em.

It can be hard physical work as well. Not many millennials into that these days.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-justin-trudeau-blows-dog-whistle-on-conservative-xenophobia

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Trudeau was perfectly within his rights to respond to the questions bellowed at him by the woman in the crowd, just as she was within her democratic rights to ask about his policies. (She was later identified on social media as Diane Blain, a member of the Front Patriotique du Québec, a group that doesn’t like Islam or immigration. Blain made the papers in 2015, when she refused to be served by a Muslim woman at a dental clinic in Montreal).

Diane Blain...

Offline wilber

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"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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The answer is 'no' but ... also the people who most often do this have inarticulate arguments, or - at worst - no argument other than personal distaste.

I think a lot of people are simply uncomfortable being surrounded by foreign people. There's nothing at all unusual about that. As we've previously discussed, most of the people in all cultures all around the world, if asked their preferences, prefer to live among people pretty much like themselves, people who have, more or less, the same values, beliefs, culture, etc. etc. And that's perfectly acceptable. You can't say that because you feel comfortable living in a United Nations sort of world that you're superior to those who don't. It's not like that's an unusual or radical preference.

Plus, if you're not a news junkie and don't do research, it's damned hard to find actual information about immigration because the media and government tell you as little as possible. But if you're not stupid you can process information in your mind pretty easily, like... our hospitals are overcrowded so bringing in tens of thousands of foreign seniors is only going to make that worse. You can see this parade of dark faces and foreign-sounding names in the news as rapists, killers, etc., and suspect much of our street crime is because of that. And no one is giving you evidence to the contrary because no one in any position of authority is going to talk about stuff like that.

Anyway, the lack of information from governmetn and media makes it hard for a lot of people to sustain the kind of discussions we have here with citations and evidence, but that feeling of wrongness seems to be spreading.

You know, I had lunch with the most lefty woman I know on the weekend. So gay friendly, environment friendly, inclusive and culturally open it can make your teeth ache.  SHE'S not happy about immigration. This is not just a right wing thing. As the poll posted above says, a good many Liberal and NDP supporters think there's too much immigration, too.



"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Ah remember her. Providing Trudeau knew who she was, his response makes more sense.

I don't see how he could have. And whoever she was, the response to a question about when you're going to give Quebec the money the Quebec Liberal leader says the feds owe should not be to accuse the person of intolerance. That simply makes no sense.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum