Author Topic: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead  (Read 603 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2020, 10:55:46 am »
if only you could cite support your claims, hey! The accounts I've read state the RCMP have no record of an alleged complaint lodged by the 'former neighbour' (a supposed complaint of assault by the killer - assault said to have been witnessed by several people... and of the killer owning illegal weapons). By the former neighbour's own account she stated the RCMP advised her they couldn't act on the assault claim without the help of witnesses - who, apparently, were unwilling to come forward and go on record.

be better member kimmy - be better!

The police don't actually need the victim's cooperation to investigate domestic abuse.

and the police investigation being able to support a successful prosecution... witnesses not necessary? Like I said, if only you could cite support your claims.


is it harassment to set up an exchange program to pay you 'fair-market' value for your guns?

If you prefer some other phrase to harassment, that's up to you.

why thank you! I'll refer to it as: "a lawful assault-style firearms buyback program - one instituted to purchase privately owned assault-style firearms with a goal to reduce the number of assault-style firearms owned by civilians... and to provide a process whereby civilians can sell their privately owned assault-style firearms to the government without risk of prosecution... while receiving fair market value for said assault-style firearms"


Why do you need... really need... the firearms you're alleging harassment over?

There are many, many things that people don't need.  We don't need cars that go 3 times the legal speed limit. We don't need recreational watercraft. We don't need backcountry snowmobiling. We don't need swimming pools. We don't need skiing.  All that stuff kills people too, and isn't needed.   For that matter, we don't need alcohol or tobacco either, and that stuff costs far more lives than guns.

We don't decide to ban stuff based on whether people need it.

that's a mighty deflection member kimmy! For some reason you chose not to describe why YOU need... really need... the assault-style firearms you're alleging harassment over?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz4tvxJB790 --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcUpDssvhPU


Offline wilber

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2020, 11:31:22 am »
Quote
and the police investigation being able to support a successful prosecution... witnesses not necessary? Like I said, if only you could cite support your claims.

Investigating domestic abuse is about 1: preventing someone from being harmed 2: supporting a prosecution, in that order.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2020, 11:46:47 am »
Investigating domestic abuse is about 1: preventing someone from being harmed 2: supporting a prosecution, in that order.

and there are practicalities you want to ignore. Clogged courts force prosecutors to align their limited resources to cases they can actually make/win... which requires a partnership with police bringing forward investigation results that include witnesses willing to make their accounts public - to go on record... to be prepared to go to court if called.

Offline wilber

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2020, 11:58:40 am »
and there are practicalities you want to ignore. Clogged courts force prosecutors to align their limited resources to cases they can actually make/win... which requires a partnership with police bringing forward investigation results that include witnesses willing to make their accounts public - to go on record... to be prepared to go to court if called.

The number one job of the police is public safety, that comes before anything else.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2020, 12:10:07 pm »
The number one job of the police is public safety, that comes before anything else.

you should apply that/your statement to this situation and the alleged domestic violence - are you stating, with certainty, that the RCMP did not investigate the allegation made by the former neighbour - notwithstanding, apparently, the RCMP state/claim they have no record of the former neighbour's supposed complaint. I appreciate you really want to take this discussion away from gun control measures targeting assault-style firearms...

Offline wilber

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2020, 12:22:11 pm »
you should apply that/your statement to this situation and the alleged domestic violence - are you stating, with certainty, that the RCMP did not investigate the allegation made by the former neighbour - notwithstanding, apparently, the RCMP state/claim they have no record of the former neighbour's supposed complaint. I appreciate you really want to take this discussion away from gun control measures targeting assault-style firearms...

Maybe you should re read the title of this topic.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2020, 02:09:14 pm »
Maybe you should re read the title of this topic.

look back and advise which member steered the discussion towards firearms... assault style firearms - cause it twas not the waldo! In any case, do you believe this should be a thread devoid of any references to, uhhh... the type of firearms used, the resulting impact of said firearms, their origin, etc.?

Offline wilber

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2020, 03:05:02 pm »
look back and advise which member steered the discussion towards firearms... assault style firearms - cause it twas not the waldo! In any case, do you believe this should be a thread devoid of any references to, uhhh... the type of firearms used, the resulting impact of said firearms, their origin, etc.?


I've never said it shouldn't include references to firearms but it is about the slaughter of 22 people.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2020, 06:07:26 pm »
Quote
Three of the illegal guns came from the U.S., one was obtained illegally in Canada through the estate of a deceased associate, and the fifth belonged to Const. Heidi Stevenson, who was killed while trying to stop the gunman. Only one of the guns used in the attack was mentioned in a 2011 police bulletin about the gunman.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ns-gunman-2011-warning-1.5589277
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2020, 01:52:18 pm »
They had a credible report of domestic violence.  They had an eyewitness claim that he had illegal guns. They had another tip about a stash of guns and a claim that he wanted to kill a cop.  This guy was a walking red flag, and the police wouldn't/couldn't do anything about it.

If they didn't have enough information to look into Gabriel Wortman, there's no hope of them being able to deliver on promises of tougher border enforcement or red flag laws.   The new gun ban wouldn't have changed one iota of the events in Portapique, and it's pathetic and dishonest for politicians to keep pretending it would have.

Quote
Police agencies across Nova Scotia were warned in May 2011 that a denturist named Gabriel Wortman had a stash of guns and said he wanted "to kill a cop," according to records newly obtained by CBC News.

But the Nova Scotia RCMP can't say what, if anything, was done with the tip about the man who police believe went on to kill 22 people, including an RCMP officer, in rural Nova Scotia in April.

The 2011 warning came after an unnamed source approached Truro police Cpl. Greg Densmore with detailed information about where Wortman kept his guns, including that he may have been transporting a handgun between his home in Dartmouth and his cottage in Portapique, N.S.

CBC News obtained a copy of Densmore's report from the Truro Police Service through an access-to-information request. Sections are redacted, but it shows the bulletin was distributed through the Criminal Intelligence Service of Nova Scotia, a network of policing agencies that share information.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2020, 02:01:52 pm »

that's a mighty deflection member kimmy! For some reason you chose not to describe why YOU need... really need... the assault-style firearms you're alleging harassment over? 

It's not a deflection.  Canadians don't need to justify their ownership of their legally-acquired property.  Somebody with a 6000 square foot house doesn't have to justify it. Somebody with a high performance car doesn't need to justify it. I don't need to justify owning my rifle.

 -k
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Offline wilber

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2020, 07:21:21 pm »
Interesting that almost two months later, the RCMP still hasn't revealed what firearms were used. I don't recall this ever happening before. What's the big secret?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Granny

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2020, 09:45:13 am »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ns-gunman-2011-warning-1.5589277

Typical RCMP bs - never cooperate with another police jurisdiction, never act on info shared with them by other police force ... Also responsible for their inaction on MMIW info - women taken in City jurisdictions and murdered and dumped in RCMP jurisdictions outside the city. ... perps know the RCMP won't even bother to investigate info from city police.
DEFUND DISBAND the RCMP, I say.
They have no standards for practice, no public accountability: Even when a complaint was made to the CRCC, the RCMP simply failed to respond.
They think they're f'n god, out of control and accountable to no one.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 09:52:05 am by Granny »
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2020, 11:46:10 pm »
Interesting that almost two months later, the RCMP still hasn't revealed what firearms were used. I don't recall this ever happening before. What's the big secret?

They have been very closed lipped about everything related to this case.  What little information the press has been able to obtain has been heavily redacted.


What's the big secret?  In regard to the firearms question, I will bet valuable Kimmy Points that the secret they are so reluctant to reveal is that the one Canadian-sourced gun used during the rampage (aside from Constable Stevenson's sidearm) is not on the list of weapons prohibited by the May OIC.   Wortman obtained this mystery gun illegally, from an estate sale. When they do eventually tell us what the mystery gun was, it's going to be a duck-hunting shotgun or a deer-hunting rifle, not a "military grade assault rifle".   And when they admit that, the last bit of phony pretense that the OIC has anything to do with Wortman's rampage will have completely evaporated.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: Rampage murder in NS - at least 16 dead
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2020, 12:45:24 am »
...the last bit of phony pretense that the OIC has anything to do with Wortman's rampage will have completely evaporated.

no - the phony pretense is yours! The ban intent has been Liberal Party policy within the platforms of the last 2 election campaigns...

no - your self-serving revisionism isn't factual: the regulations were always intended to be presented this session... late March. And then, you know, COVID-19 redirected the near entirety of the government's attention, particularly Public Safety Minister Blair's focus on border security and other pandemic related public safety concerns.