Author Topic: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name  (Read 1512 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #240 on: June 04, 2021, 02:55:42 pm »
I think canceling John A causes cognitive dissonance.  We were all raised to believe he was great while wrapping the flag around him and ourselves.  Now we realize he did terrible stuff.  So he's part great, part terrible, and we don't know what to think.  At least that's how I feel.  It's kind of how I feel about Bill Cosby.  It's weird to want to boo and cheer someone at the same time.

Maybe we will get to have non-binary (sorry to reuse that term) moral evaluations of people, so that we can rise above Hollywood blockbuster depictions of human character in public life ?

Imagine that.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #241 on: June 04, 2021, 03:03:19 pm »
It’s telling to me that Wilber and Graham wouldn’t answer my question about what they would think if they were indigenous… if that would change their viewpoint on this….  Or if they had to see a statue of their oppressor everyday.  Or if their child had to go to school in a place named after the guy who covered up the **** of their father.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #242 on: June 04, 2021, 03:04:49 pm »
Maybe we will get to have non-binary (sorry to reuse that term) moral evaluations of people, so that we can rise above Hollywood blockbuster depictions of human character in public life ?

Imagine that.

The west has a christian-based morality system of good vs evil.  You're either one of the other, there's no nuance.  Maybe people aren't good or bad, only their deeds.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #243 on: June 04, 2021, 03:09:20 pm »
The west has a christian-based morality system of good vs evil.  You're either one of the other, there's no nuance.  Maybe people aren't good or bad, only their deeds.

That argument is pretty shallow.  Plus, it twists what Christian-based morality is and it assumes that everyone is following it.  We, as a nation, certainly don’t have Christian values reflected in our laws.

The people wanting to pull down statues could say the exact same thing about those who don’t…. They only see J.A. Mac as “good” and don’t see the bad parts, like they do.


Offline MH

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #244 on: June 04, 2021, 05:18:00 pm »
The west has a christian-based morality system of good vs evil.  You're either one of the other, there's no nuance.  Maybe people aren't good or bad, only their deeds.

I thought Christians were about forgiveness? And what's new in atheist to actually like the Catholic church because of the sacrament of confession and the cathartic release that it gave somebody who is willing to actually atone

Offline wilber

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #245 on: June 04, 2021, 06:07:58 pm »
It’s telling to me that Wilber and Graham wouldn’t answer my question about what they would think if they were indigenous… if that would change their viewpoint on this….  Or if they had to see a statue of their oppressor everyday.  Or if their child had to go to school in a place named after the guy who covered up the **** of their father.

I don't assume what others will think, I wouldn't be surprised if they are pretty used to hollow words by now.

We are not responsible for what others did in the past, we are responsible for what we do. If we don't do anything we are worse than those of the past because we know we are wrong, they were acting according to the morals of their day.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #246 on: June 04, 2021, 06:43:43 pm »
It’s telling to me that Wilber and Graham wouldn’t answer my question about what they would think if they were indigenous… if that would change their viewpoint on this….  Or if they had to see a statue of their oppressor everyday.  Or if their child had to go to school in a place named after the guy who covered up the **** of their father.

I don't owe you anything.  Maybe if you behaved around here with more respect i'd have more respect for your questions and i'd bother to answer them.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #247 on: June 04, 2021, 06:47:40 pm »
Neither of them answered my question once again.  LOL

Offline eyeball

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #248 on: June 04, 2021, 07:15:56 pm »
We are not responsible for what others did in the past, we are responsible for what we do.
We are responsible for the institutions we inherited and all the crap that comes with them.  These are not limited liability contraptions. We're the one's driving them, we're the one's at the controls.  I say we drive most of the fricken' things off a cliff and start from scratch myself.

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If we don't do anything we are worse than those of the past because we know we are wrong, they were acting according to the morals of their day.

Nope. They knew full well what the magic words were for and what they meant. We still worship them just the way did.

Further to that we still support warlords, dictators and even modern day ethnic cleansing colonizers - and lets not forget the biggest oldest **** ring on the planet.  Isis look like amateurs and boy scouts compared to the Roman Catholic Church.

Edited to add: That's hilarious, the forum software treated my use of the word p e d o p h i l e as a taboo word.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 07:18:29 pm by eyeball »

Offline wilber

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #249 on: June 04, 2021, 07:37:55 pm »
Neither of them answered my question once again.  LOL

You seem to be an expert on what FN think so why don't you tell us.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #250 on: June 04, 2021, 07:43:41 pm »
We are responsible for the institutions we inherited and all the crap that comes with them.  These are not limited liability contraptions. We're the one's driving them, we're the one's at the controls.  I say we drive most of the fricken' things off a cliff and start from scratch myself.
 


As a country our present government is legally responsible for what happened in the past, it is only morally responsible for its own actions or lack thereof.
Drive what fricken things off a cliff?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline eyeball

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #251 on: June 04, 2021, 08:06:30 pm »
As a country our present government is legally responsible for what happened in the past, it is only morally responsible for its own actions or lack thereof.

As living citizens of an established democracy we're responsible for all of it, right now. As I said there's no limited liability.
 
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Drive what fricken things off a cliff?
The Department of Indian Affairs and DFO in that order would be a nice start but they're more like smaller parts of my broader use of the term institutions which refers to things like national governments.  I'm quite serious, burn the goddamn thing to the ground and start from scratch if it refuses to be reformed. The Catholic Church is so ancient and big it almost counts as an institution on par with the United Nation's but of even vaster influence over time and space not to mention sheer numbers of human beings.

As for the Catholic Church, forget reforming it, move straight to burning it to the ground. There's a culture that needs cancelled toot suite.

Recall what I said about Canada's 1st Nations being given preeminent positions within our foreign affairs department?  I'm thrilled to see Canada's 1st Nations demanding that the Pope apologize not only to them but to the entire world for the suffering the institution he's responsible for driving caused virtually every indigenous people that ever ran afoul of it.  I doubt a 1st Nations dominated Foreign Affairs Department would be too sympathetic to maintaining Canada's ties with dictator either. 

Of course it should also be mentioned that many colonizing nations took their cues and instructions from Roman Catholic Church on how to spread and force it's values throughout the world. 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 08:16:23 pm by eyeball »

Offline wilber

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #252 on: June 04, 2021, 09:13:14 pm »
As living citizens of an established democracy we're responsible for all of it, right now. As I said there's no limited liability.
 

Legally yes. We are only morally bound not to make the same mistakes or perpetuate old ones.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #254 on: June 09, 2021, 07:55:24 am »
I thought Christians were about forgiveness?
Catholics are. A lot of Christian denominations are about predestination, no forgiveness.