Author Topic: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name  (Read 1512 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« on: January 10, 2018, 06:16:01 pm »
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/01/09/kingston-pub-changes-name-to-remove-reference-to-sir-john-a-macdonald.html

Owner has just changed the name of the historic pub, a heritage site, due to protestors:

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A downtown Kingston pub has changed its name to remove reference to Canada’s first prime minister over the role Sir John A. Macdonald played in residential schools.

Sir John’s Public House has been renamed the Public House, owner Paul Fortier said.

“We decided to make the change because we are a hospitality venue,” Fortier told the Star. “And many customers indicated that because of the name, that they were unable to patronize the pub, that they felt unsafe.”

Fortier said patrons were concerned about the association between Macdonald and 19th-century policies that were destructive to Indigenous Canadians, like residential schools.

“There was one individual who was a regular here at the pub, and he told me of his personal experience in residential schools and how horrible a memory it was for him,” Fortier said. “And that the association with John A. Macdonald meant that he could no longer come here.”

From 1849 to 1860, the building was home to Macdonald’s law office. The 150-seat, two-storey pub was named in recognition of the lawyer who would later guide Canada toward Confederation.

“We will continue to represent Sir John A. Macdonald and talk about his use of the structure and to commemorate him,” Fortier said. “But we’ve decided to make a slight change to the name ... to make the name more inclusive, to be more welcoming, to all Canadians.”

Fortier said only the pub’s name and sign will be changed, with the exterior sign due to come down Tuesday.
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The exterior plaque erected by Parks Canada to commemorate Macdonald’s use of the building will remain, as will interior features like an original bust of Macdonald from the 1880s.

Sir John A wasn't perfect like any politician, far from it.  But he is our history, he was the leader in uniting Canada's separate provinces into one country immediately after the US Civil War in order to prevent America's remaining huge standing army from invading our provinces one by one (USA had annexed Texas from Mexico & fought a war over it with Mexico only 20 years earlier). 

Aboriginals have a right to be mad at an architect of a well-intentioned but ultimately cruel residential school system.  They should also be thankful to him because they'd be living under the rule of President Trump if not for him.  He is a mixed historical figure, but a part of our history and not to be forgotten, good and bad.  The pub owner is free to do as he wishes to the name of his pub, I just think it's ridiculous.  I've visited the pub before and won't be back.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

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Offline MH

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 07:00:40 pm »
Why not go ?  They're not in the business of standing up for free speech, they're in the business of selling beer.  Your boycott is just another example of boycotts being overused IMO.

But I agree that people have to stop caring so much about symbolism....

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 07:11:56 pm »
Should the owner be free to change the name or not? Could have left it alone and ignored the complaints.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 09:06:39 pm »
The owner's free to change the name, people are free to not go.  The only thing that matters is the beer.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline MH

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 09:09:43 pm »
EVERYBODY STOP DOING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE TELL YOU TO DO !!!

Offline Omni

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 09:15:33 pm »
EVERYBODY STOP DOING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE TELL YOU TO DO !!!

Unless of course they are smarter than you.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 09:40:36 pm »
Why not go ?  They're not in the business of standing up for free speech, they're in the business of selling beer.  Your boycott is just another example of boycotts being overused IMO.

But I agree that people have to stop caring so much about symbolism....

The pub owner changed the name of the venue due to protests and boycotts from anti-Sir John A folks.  That's capitalism.  So boycotts and protests will bring the name back.   The pub owner is ultimately free to do what he wishes.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 09:44:54 pm »
Should the owner be free to change the name or not? Could have left it alone and ignored the complaints.

Hard to ignore the complaints when you have a pub in a city where a significant amount of the economy is from the local university students, many who are active in supporting Idle No More (which is fine), but includes things like "Sir John A is genocide please ban everything Sir John A".
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline JBG

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 09:17:38 am »
I can't wait to find something to be offended about.
Trump - Watch what he does, not how he says it.

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Offline wilber

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 09:46:21 am »
I can't wait to find something to be offended about.

Yes, we live in an era when everyone feels the need to be outraged over something and takes a sanctimonious delight in it. Oh look at me, I’m outraged. They will invent something if they have to.
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guest4

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 09:57:32 am »
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They will invent something if they have to
One person's outrage is another person' "meh"; aka we are all "they" sometimes.

Offline TimG

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 10:18:01 am »
Yes, we live in an era when everyone feels the need to be outraged over something and takes a sanctimonious delight in it. Oh look at me, I’m outraged. They will invent something if they have to.
I get the impression that many of the 20 somethings love the feeling of power they get when institutions bow to their whims so they keep inventing excuses to be outraged to feed their need to feel powerful. It is a never ending cycle that will only end when institutions start telling these immature jerks to go pound salt.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 10:52:46 am »
I get the impression that many of the 20 somethings love the feeling of power they get when institutions bow to their whims so they keep inventing excuses to be outraged to feed their need to feel powerful. It is a never ending cycle that will only end when institutions start telling these immature jerks to go pound salt.

I think that's part of it.  I was certainly "outraged" about things when I was a youngin progressive liberal-minded scrapper.  Not to this extent though.  The politically correct culture has entered a new phase of PC-ness.  This PC mindset is very well-meaning, and these are good people with good hearts who honestly want "social justice" for people/groups they see as marginalized by more powerful people/groups.  But they often also are so worried about empathizing & sympathizing with the marginalized groups, and have such contempt towards the groups they see as the oppressors, that they fail to empathize or sympathize with these "oppressing" groups and see their side of the story.

As well, the "progress" for progressives is constantly marching further towards the left, and has since the 60's if not well earlier.  I think we've gotten to a point where the progressive movement has become so far left it's become ridiculous.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 11:39:04 am »
Hard to ignore the complaints when you have a pub in a city where a significant amount of the economy is from the local university students, many who are active in supporting Idle No More (which is fine), but includes things like "Sir John A is genocide please ban everything Sir John A".
Okay. What’s your point then? Should he change it to appeal to more people or not?

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Pub named after Sir John A changes its name
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 11:40:40 am »
I get the impression that many of the 20 somethings love the feeling of power they get when institutions bow to their whims so they keep inventing excuses to be outraged to feed their need to feel powerful. It is a never ending cycle that will only end when institutions start telling these immature jerks to go pound salt.
ah yes,,,institutions bowing to young people’s whims. The great institution of a neighbourhood pub changing its name. Such a tragedy. Hey! Maybe you should boycott the pub for bowing to people’s whims. Maybe then they’ll change the name back and bow to your whim.