Author Topic: Polygamy Culture  (Read 341 times)

Offline Goddess

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2017, 04:20:13 pm »
Yeah and that will be easy if we impose a law that ensures they won't be seen.

Aren't they already being imposed by a "law" that ensures they won't be seen?

Should our laws protect HER or her idiot family, husband, religion?
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2017, 04:46:00 pm »
Aren't they already being imposed by a "law" that ensures they won't be seen?

Should our laws protect HER or her idiot family, husband, religion?

Yep and the counter-argument to that is it's her free will which brings us back to there is no free will when it comes to indoctrination.


Offline Goddess

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2017, 05:10:08 pm »
Yep and the counter-argument to that is it's her free will which brings us back to there is no free will when it comes to indoctrination.

True, unfortunately.

Dia is right on one thing, though.  You can't help someone who refuses to help themselves.

It takes beach ball sized lady nuts to leave something like that and not everyone has it in them to do it.


Offline bcsapper

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2017, 06:30:15 pm »
This I agree with.  And similarly there's a very big difference between a woman who's husband won't allow her to leave the house unless she puts on her niqab and a woman who chooses to wear as a sign of her faith. But somehow people are unable to distinguish between these things.

It's the same as some young lady who thinks her God wants her to marry the old git.  Sign of her faith.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline msj

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2017, 06:49:45 pm »
Funny thing is, that at one time in Canada's history, potlach's were banned.

That's right folks, from 1885 to 1951 consenting adults* were not allowed to meet and exchange gifts. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch_ban

I've been to that museum in Alert Bay a couple of times and it is worth the trip.

My point is that it is easy for the State to make up rules against consenting adults from doing things.

Sometimes they may be enforced and most times not (potlach rules were not very often, sort of like polygamy laws).

The State should only be imposing laws to deal with clear harm. 

Just because I do not like someone being brainwashed to dip their new baby in holy water (which is filthy btw) does not mean the State should ban baptisms.

Same goes for male circumcision which, for practical reasons, should be educated against rather than banned (I do not want to see back alley baby penis chop shops after all). I'm fine with FGM being against the law as ideally MGM would also be against the law too (but, again, not practical given cultural traditions in Canada - maybe in 20 years if we are lucky).

Same goes for a host of stupid ideas all brought to us thanks to the stupidity of religion.

That's the way it goes. Can't get everyone to buy into what is good for them (a secular society with no belief in any god(s) being my personal utopia).

So come on, embrace freedom and let consenting adults do what they are gonna do even if it is not fully informed (in our opinions).


* Of course, Indians were not capable of being consenting adults, surely, since they did not even have the right to vote until 1960 (well, they could vote if they gave up their Indian status ...).




 

I've gotta have more cow bell! -Bruce Dickinson

Offline the_squid

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2017, 07:03:27 pm »
A potlatch ceremony is not the same as polygamy.  False equivocation.

Offline msj

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2017, 07:13:38 pm »
Yes it is not the same.

However, why should the state concern itself if, say,  five people shack up with each other?

Whether they call themselves married or not - who cares, no ones business.

Sure, only allow one spouse for tax reasons/CPP benefits, child benefit etc but if people wanna shack up then they are gonna shack up.

Prove the harm and charge them but shacking up with people should not be a crime.

I've gotta have more cow bell! -Bruce Dickinson

Offline kimmy

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2017, 11:07:24 am »
Quote
However, why should the state concern itself if, say,  five people shack up with each other?

The state doesn't care.


The state's interest in this is fighting the right of communities like these Latter-Day Fundamentalists to indoctrinate their children into this lifestyle. The state doesn't care if consenting adults want to get frisky in groups larger than 2.  The state cares a lot about preventing people from raising their daughters from infancy to believe that God's Plan is for them to make babies for the cult leader.

Refusing to give legal recognition to polygamy is part of that effort. If you can't tell people that it's against the law of the land, can you tell people that it's illegal to raise your kids with that belief?

 -k

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2017, 11:19:11 am »
The state doesn't care.


The state's interest in this is fighting the right of communities like these Latter-Day Fundamentalists to indoctrinate their children into this lifestyle. The state doesn't care if consenting adults want to get frisky in groups larger than 2.  The state cares a lot about preventing people from raising their daughters from infancy to believe that God's Plan is for them to make babies for the cult leader.

Refusing to give legal recognition to polygamy is part of that effort. If you can't tell people that it's against the law of the land, can you tell people that it's illegal to raise your kids with that belief?

 -k

What if you raise your daughter from infancy to believe that God's Plan is for them to make babies for the cult leader in a monogamous relationship?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline kimmy

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2017, 12:01:27 pm »
Leaving aside whether a woman is forced to wear a niqab or chooses it, if wearing it in public were illegal, she would be effectively banned from malls, coffee shops, sporting events, schools, any public place. 

If wearing a niqab prevents her from doing those things, then maybe she could chose to not wear it when she wants to do those things.

In the case of women who are forced to wear them through family pressure or outright violence, how is it any different?   
If we justify allowing niqabs and burqas on the basis that these women might get beat up if they don't wear them, aren't we acting as enablers for the abusers? If we're concerned that women could get beaten up for not conforming to dress codes, shouldn't we be concerned that these women are getting beaten up for other reasons too?  Is it possible that these heavily concealing garments are being used to hide bruises?

I believe the only truth in the above is that they are allowed to wear them in court.   In the other cases, the niqab is removed for photos and for identification by law enforcement; the accommodation is that it is done in private and in front of a woman. 

All of these issues have been fought in court ad nauseum, and there are no shortage of those who believe that the right to wear a bag on your head should supersede other concerns. Regarding court: wearing a mask while giving testimony can be an infringement on the right of the accused to a legal defense. The court can certainly refuse to allow you to testify while wearing a mask if there is any concern that the right to a fair trial is compromised.

Sure, but it would probably be more effective to point out that wearing them is not a requirement of Islam.

I'm not out to convince any person to change the way she dresses.  No one person's choice of dress offends me.

However, the underlying idea-- that women need to cover themselves to avoid tempting men into violence-- is offensive and insulting to everyone concerned.

I notice that the more anti-Islamic rhetoric there is, the more women I see in hijabs and niqabs.  Could it be that the way women who are visually identifiable as Muslim are attacked is causing them to increase their solidarity through the wearing of these (to them, if not you) religious symbols?   Maybe a smarter course of action would be to ignore it and let them realize on their own that there is a better and more comfortable way to dress.

I ignore it in real life when I see it, which is rare here. There's nothing to be gained by getting in someone's face.  But here, where we're discussing the idea itself rather than a single persons' personal choices, I see no reason not to point out that the idea is terrible and stupid and disgusting.

I can understand who people raised in the culture accept it.  But I feel no sympathy for dumb-ass western women who have come to advocate for the idea as if it were a symbol of "empowerment" or some shit like that. It's not a symbol of empowerment. It is literally a symbol of the idea that women are pieces of meat and that men are animals who will take them if they're not covered up. It's idiotic to try and market it as anything other.



SO FUCKING EMPOWERED~~~!

 -k
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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2017, 01:01:42 pm »





 -k

That would make a great commercial. 

Did you remember to pack enough sunscreen?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2017, 11:34:35 am »
What if you raise your daughter from infancy to believe that God's Plan is for them to make babies for the cult leader in a monogamous relationship?
While indoctrination of any type is bad, at least in that situation, you won't have a large number of disenfranchised males who are unable to find partners because the cult leaders have taken multiple wives.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2017, 08:00:06 am »
While indoctrination of any type is bad, at least in that situation, you won't have a large number of disenfranchised males who are unable to find partners because the cult leaders have taken multiple wives.

Ah, so the problem with this is, it's bad for men.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2017, 11:04:10 am »
Re: polygamy vs. monogamy & women having many babies..
Quote
While indoctrination of any type is bad, at least in that situation, you won't have a large number of disenfranchised males who are unable to find partners because the cult leaders have taken multiple wives.
Ah, so the problem with this is, it's bad for men.
Its bad for SOME men and for society in general.

I'm not saying either type of situation is good... its just that one system (polygamy) is just a tiny bit worse than the other system (monogamy, but with women encouraged to be baby factories).