Author Topic: Polygamy Culture  (Read 1036 times)

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guest4

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2017, 03:58:25 pm »
Ya.  Almost as logical as inferring that I want children to suffer because I don't agree with paying out massive amounts of money for polygamists to have multiple families.

See how that works?

He did inferred nothing of the sort, only pointed out the flaw in your plan.    You went directly to a black and white choice of either agree with you or support polygamy and fraud.

See how that works?


Offline Goddess

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 04:03:08 pm »
So what's the solution?  That was my point.
Do we support polygamists by paying for their families, while they sit and collect cheques?
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Offline Goddess

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 04:51:30 pm »
 

(My sister, btw, had it wrotten into the marriage contract that she would be the only wife.)

Just out of curiosity, how does that work?

I'm curious, because fidelity is generally a condition of marriage, regardless of relligion.

If he one day decided to get another wife, what recourse would your sister have?  My understanding is that it's a Muslim man's right to have up to 4 wives, according to the koran.  Would her preferences override the koran?
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 06:25:13 pm »
Ya.  Almost as logical as inferring that I want children to suffer because I don't agree with paying out massive amounts of money for polygamists to have multiple families.

See how that works?

It's just such a simpleton, knee-jerk answer....   

First, you didn't show that this was even a problem...   just an assumption on your part, or do you have evidence?

2nd, I am not against removing people from welfare if they are fraudulently collecting...   but, I think that the children's welfare should be a first thought, not a knee-jerk punnishment to women who have been brainwashed since they were children.

I am in favour of going after these men and nailing them to the wall and GIVING welfare to these women to help them out of their situation.

guest4

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 06:42:41 pm »
Just out of curiosity, how does that work?

I'm curious, because fidelity is generally a condition of marriage, regardless of relligion.

If he one day decided to get another wife, what recourse would your sister have?  My understanding is that it's a Muslim man's right to have up to 4 wives, according to the koran.  Would her preferences override the koran?

 
Their marital contract takes precedence over the *permission* given in the Koran for a man to have multiple wives.  He agreed to it, he is bound to it. 

Of course, he can break his word and take another wife.   My sister could sue for divorce on those grounds.   If they do divorce, he is bound by the marital contract to pay for her resettlement in Canada.   Of course he could ignore that as well. 

Inasmuch as one can consider a Muslim honorable and honest, my brother-in-law is.  His religion and culture definitely make him blind to some things we take for granted, but to my mind he is no more blinded by his religion than Betsy is by hers.  None of the males in that family have more than one wife, by the way, even though they all have the right according to their law and their religion.   

Here's an article about an Egyptian man who took a second wife, twice.  I personally think he's a jerk, so i'm not posting this because I approve.  But it gives some insight into cultural attitudes in Egypt, and the article mentions that 25% of men in Egypt take a second wife, which means 75% don't - perhaps my sister's husband and brothers-in-law are more the norm than not.   It also mentions that 70% of those second marriages end in divorce. 

http://www.cairoscene.com/In-Depth/Polygamy-in-Egypt-Why-I-Decided-to-marry-a-Second-Wife

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 07:42:02 pm »
Blackmore is now convicted.  Good.  He's a piece of dog ****.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-polygamy-trial-1.4218735
There appear to be three fronts of attacks on monogamous marriage, from my observation: Fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Muslims, and hipsters.  The article says the high court allows for the banning of polygamous marriage but should it ?

Do we care ?

Furthermore, if these aren't attempted 'legal' marriages then how are they different from secular relationships ?  The court should stay out of those IMO.

I really couldn't care less if consenting adults want to engage in "open marriages", "swinging", polyamorous relationships, or any other kind of non-exclusive, non-monogamous sexual relationship.  Conversely I don't see any reason to give them any legal recognition either.

Prosecuting Winston Blackmore wasn't about putting an end to consenting adults getting frisky together. It was about putting an end to his disgusting cult.  Perhaps those outside BC aren't familiar with Blackmore.

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Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2017, 07:48:46 pm »
A Canadian woman I know, who converted to Islam as an adult, subsequently chose to marry an Egyptian man, knowing he already had a wife.  (This is not my sister)  Islam requires that wives are treated equally (good in theory, laughable in practice), with separate houses, husbandly time and attentions, and equal financial arrangements.  I can't say this woman was brainwashed by Islam, but I think she let romance cloud her judgement and believed this man was able to do as promised and according to what she believed Islam mandated.  Perhaps needless to say, the relationship ended and she is back in Canada.  Still, women (and men) have made equally stupid decisions without any religion being involved so I fail to see how making religion illegal will really prevent people from being stupid. 

But I do hear you on the wish that religion becomes extinct somehow. 

(My sister, btw, had it wrotten into the marriage contract that she would be the only wife.)

I think the way we currently operate is you're allowed to practice your brainwashed religious taboos as long as it's not hurting anyone.  So FGM is out even if women are the brainwashed ones performing it on each other.

It can be argued that polygamy hurts women, so we outlaw it, but niqab doesn't. 

But here is where it becomes a grey are and subjectivity comes in.  I say niqab does hurt women because it hinders their ability to get jobs and function in society. 

Where do we draw the line saying something is hurting women or not?  I think it's easier to just get rid of all together.  If it's not egalitarian it doesn't belong in Canada.  For example, if men can have multiple wives but women can't have multiple husbands, it doesn't belong.  If women have to suffocate under a niqab and men don't, it doesn't belong.  If men don't have to chop their parts, neither do women.

I find we're very selective and inconsistent about the rules and it's better to just have an arbitrary line to draw .

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 08:18:31 pm »
Blackmore is now convicted.  Good.  He's a piece of dog ****.



I really couldn't care less if consenting adults want to engage in "open marriages", "swinging", polyamorous relationships, or any other kind of non-exclusive, non-monogamous sexual relationship.  Conversely I don't see any reason to give them any legal recognition either.

Prosecuting Winston Blackmore wasn't about putting an end to consenting adults getting frisky together. It was about putting an end to his disgusting cult.  Perhaps those outside BC aren't familiar with Blackmore.

 -k

That's why it should go further up the judicial ziggurat.  Consenting adults should not pay for this guy's sins.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline wilber

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 09:34:10 pm »
This is about indoctrination and control, not a consentual relationship of equals. Several of his "brides" were in their teens, the yougest, fifteen. The guy is  scumbag of the first order and I hope he goes to jail. This is Canada though, so I am probably dreaming.
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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 09:53:12 pm »
This is about indoctrination and control, not a consentual relationship of equals. Several of his "brides" were in their teens, the yougest, fifteen. The guy is  scumbag of the first order and I hope he goes to jail. This is Canada though, so I am probably dreaming.

That's exactly my point.  Why should this guy get the final say on the issue?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2017, 07:33:49 am »
This is the same argument I use for why I think the niqab is not really based on free will of a consenting adult and should not be allowed in a free egalitarian society.

Having said that, I get it that it's a fine line.
I just don't see how you equate wearing a veil to **** children.

This is an article on the leader of their cult:

"Six years after Warren Jeffs was first arrested and later sentenced to life in prison for sexually assaulting children, it's almost as though the fundamentalist leader, whom the faithful call their "prophet," never left Colorado City.

Jeffs' followers, who live in the desert town nestled on the border between Arizona and Utah, are a radical splinter group of the mainstream Mormon church who call themselves the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jailed-polygamist-leader-warren-jeffs-issues-hundreds-orders/story?id=17770090

But sure....fashion choices are so clearly the same.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2017, 10:16:24 am »
I just don't see how you equate wearing a veil to **** children.

I wasn't.  I was comparing it to the illegal act of marriage of one man and multiple women over the age of consent.

You're the one talking about a particular case.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2017, 11:46:37 am »
I wasn't.  I was comparing it to the illegal act of marriage of one man and multiple women over the age of consent.

You're the one talking about a particular case.
It's not a particular case. It's the standard practice of the cult that these people were in. That "particular case" happens to be the leader of their cult. These men groom little girls to be their brides and often times are screwing around with them when they're underage. You were comparing grooming a woman to be your sex slave as the same thing as choosing religious attire as an expression of your faith. I don't see how they're comparable at all.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 11:55:10 am »
It's not a particular case. It's the standard practice of the cult that these people were in. That "particular case" happens to be the leader of their cult. These men groom little girls to be their brides and often times are screwing around with them when they're underage. You were comparing grooming a woman to be your sex slave as the same thing as choosing religious attire as an expression of your faith. I don't see how they're comparable at all.

It's all sexual fetishes - the niqab and the burka included.
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Polygamy Culture
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 12:12:00 pm »
It's all sexual fetishes - the niqab and the burka included.
So is the crucifix, yeah? Ever see the movie The Exorcist?