Author Topic: People’s Party of Canada launched  (Read 969 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #135 on: September 17, 2019, 09:22:46 pm »
Again:

"I think it's wrong to give Mr. Bernier the platform to spread his hateful and divisive message," NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said during a campaign stop in Montreal.

Singh doesn't want him at the debates, he wants him banned from the debate because of his political views.  He wants the government to censor Bernier.

So it's not because he doesn't like the message.

Offline Ghost of Graham

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #136 on: September 17, 2019, 09:28:19 pm »
So it's not because he doesn't like the message.

What??  ???

Of course it is!  You been smoking the Green Party hippie reefer they got out in BC?

Offline MH

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2019, 04:41:19 am »
What??  ???

Of course it is!  You been smoking the Green Party hippie reefer they got out in BC?

"He doesn't like the message" does not mean the same thing as "He thinks it's wrong".

I don't LIKE Nazi propaganda, nor do I LIKE watermelon.  I think Nazi propaganda should be disallowed but it is NOT because I feel my fickle tastes should hold sway over the Canadian population's options.  I don't LIKE a lot of Conservative messaging but I want people to hear it and want to debate it in the open.

What I LIKE has nothing to do with what I think should be banned.  For someone to assert that my tastes are dictating a very important thing like that is insulting to me.
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Offline Granny

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2019, 11:17:34 am »
Again:

"I think it's wrong to give Mr. Bernier the platform to spread his hateful and divisive message," NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said during a campaign stop in Montreal.

Singh doesn't want him at the debates, he wants him banned from the debate because of his political views.  He wants the government to censor Bernier.

I'd agree that Singh's reasoning is faulty and somewhat dangerous. Inclusion criteria for debates does not include the leader's content.
It's up to voters to decide whether Bernier's white ethnocentric views are acceptable.
Here are the ridings polling ~25% for PPC:
In addition to Bernier's riding of Beauce, the commission reviewed opinion polling results for the Ontario ridings of Nipissing-Timiskaming, Etobicoke North and Pickering-Uxbridge, and the Manitoba riding of Charleswood-St.-James-Assiniboia-Headingley.

Offline the_squid

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2019, 11:25:22 am »
Quote
...the numbers presented above show that the PPC is facing extremely long odds to elect more than one MP this October—especially since even Bernier’s re-election in Beauce is far from certain.

It goes to show how the term “reasonable chances” can be interpreted differently.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338-canada-the-very-long-odds-for-the-ppc/

The criteria is too subjective, obviously.  They set it at a wishy-washy level, instead of hard and fast polling numbers at a particular date.  The commission failed at a fairly simple task.

Offline Granny

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2019, 11:54:14 am »
The criteria is too subjective, obviously.  They set it at a wishy-washy level, instead of hard and fast polling numbers at a particular date.  The commission failed at a fairly simple task.
Not helpful, because polls are not reliable enough to be used as sole criteria.


Offline the_squid

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2019, 12:09:16 pm »
Not helpful, because polls are not reliable enough to be used as sole criteria.

So you think saying "likely chance to win a seat based on polling" is better than having a hard rule (x% across Y polls).

Not so much. 

And I never said anything about it being the sole criteria.

Offline Granny

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2019, 12:18:39 pm »
So you think saying "likely chance to win a seat based on polling" is better than having a hard rule (x% across Y polls).

Not so much. 

And I never said anything about it being the sole criteria.

Polls can't be depended on to the extent of being used as a "hard rule", especially at the riding level.

You've seen them, wild fluctuations, still unable to provide good numbers since the advent of cell phones and internet. Polling people with landlines gets you older seniors only these days. All else is quite variable.

Offline the_squid

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #143 on: September 18, 2019, 12:21:01 pm »
Polls can't be depended on to the extent of being used as a "hard rule", especially at the riding level.

You've seen them, wild fluctuations, still unable to provide good numbers since the advent of cell phones and internet. Polling people with landlines gets you older seniors only these days. All else is quite variable.

Wild fluctuations?  Really?   I don't think you really understand polling.

But, let's assume you know what you're talking about and that polls shouldn't be used.  What's the criteria then?

Offline Granny

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #144 on: September 18, 2019, 12:32:42 pm »
Wild fluctuations?  Really?   I don't think you really understand polling.

But, let's assume you know what you're talking about and that polls shouldn't be used.  What's the criteria then?

Yes, I understand polling quite well. I know its limits.
Polls are one element and human judgement is another. For example, Bernier might get some leeway for being a familiar face and name, as he came very close to potentially being Prime Minister.
Polls can't tell you how that will influence people on election day, especially if Scheer keeps shooting himself in the foot and a Trudeau  scandal arises.
Polls can only tell you what's influencing people right now.

Offline Ghost of Graham

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2019, 12:56:52 pm »
"He doesn't like the message" does not mean the same thing as "He thinks it's wrong".

I don't LIKE Nazi propaganda, nor do I LIKE watermelon.  I think Nazi propaganda should be disallowed but it is NOT because I feel my fickle tastes should hold sway over the Canadian population's options.  I don't LIKE a lot of Conservative messaging but I want people to hear it and want to debate it in the open.

What I LIKE has nothing to do with what I think should be banned.  For someone to assert that my tastes are dictating a very important thing like that is insulting to me.

If Elections Canada has no legal reason to restrict a party from running for office, and that party reaches the criteria for being in the debates, then that party leader should be in the debates.

My or your or Singh's opinion on that party/leader is completely irrelevant to whether or not that leader should be in the debates.  If the leader raped 15 babies or wants to destroy Canada via Quebec separation but is eligible to run for office, the debate commission should not have the subjective power to restrict them from debating because they think they're evil.  They're either in all the way, or out all the way, and everything should be based on objective rules, not subjective feelings.

Bernier can certainly be offensive, arguably even racist, he's certainly nativist and culturally nationalist.  If Singh has a problem with Bernier, take it up with Elections Canada.

Offline the_squid

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #146 on: September 18, 2019, 01:57:35 pm »
If Elections Canada has no legal reason to restrict a party from running for office, and that party reaches the criteria for being in the debates, then that party leader should be in the debates.

My or your or Singh's opinion on that party/leader is completely irrelevant to whether or not that leader should be in the debates.  If the leader raped 15 babies or wants to destroy Canada via Quebec separation but is eligible to run for office, the debate commission should not have the subjective power to restrict them from debating because they think they're evil.  They're either in all the way, or out all the way, and everything should be based on objective rules, not subjective feelings.

Bernier can certainly be offensive, arguably even racist, he's certainly nativist and culturally nationalist.  If Singh has a problem with Bernier, take it up with Elections Canada.

He only made the criteria because the criteria are vague and subjective.   He didn't make the same criteria earlier.

Offline the_squid

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #147 on: September 18, 2019, 01:59:32 pm »
Yes, I understand polling quite well. I know its limits.
Polls are one element and human judgement is another. For example, Bernier might get some leeway for being a familiar face and name, as he came very close to potentially being Prime Minister.
Polls can't tell you how that will influence people on election day, especially if Scheer keeps shooting himself in the foot and a Trudeau  scandal arises.
Polls can only tell you what's influencing people right now.

I never asked about your opinion on polls. 

What criteria, if not polls?

Offline Goddess

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #148 on: September 18, 2019, 03:03:50 pm »
What??  ???

Of course it is!  You been smoking the Green Party hippie reefer they got out in BC?

Now there's a platform I could get behind  :D
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Offline Ghost of Graham

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Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #149 on: September 18, 2019, 03:07:40 pm »
Now there's a platform I could get behind  :D

It exists, join the Green Party.  The green stand for reefer lol.
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