Author Topic: People’s Party of Canada launched  (Read 922 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online the_squid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2014
People’s Party of Canada launched
« on: September 16, 2018, 01:54:27 pm »
Maxime Bernier has launched the PPofC. 
http://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca

There are some interesting platform ideas...
No provincial equalization - but no ideas to replace it with something “more fair”
No carbon tax - no plan to deal with climate change
Supply management - wants to scrap it.   Seems to be to appease the USA for NAFTA.
Drop taxes, especially on businesses.  - Doesn’t say what services will be eliminated.   Seems to be of the same old debunked conservative position that “lower taxes will actually raise more taxes” nonsense.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Offline kimmy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3414
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 02:31:16 pm »
Finally! Political party for People!  Comrades! We must rise up, seize means of production!  Take back wealth stolen by industrialist oppressors!  Comrades! I promise this: tractor for every commune, roof over every head, bread for every belly! Unite with me!  Together we shall take back our country from these plutocrats and their cronies! Join me, people! How can you do less? Our time is now! Rise up!

 -k

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6825
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 03:16:17 pm »
There is going to be something new, I think and it will be quite different.

Too many new changes in management technical and technology to not percolate through to government.  It won't be a right/left change as much as how things are managed, and it will be better for everyone.  It may cause centrism to regain its legs.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 04:05:04 pm »
There is going to be something new, I think and it will be quite different.

Too many new changes in management technical and technology to not percolate through to government.  It won't be a right/left change as much as how things are managed, and it will be better for everyone.  It may cause centrism to regain its legs.

Coyne has suggested that the existence of the NDP has mainstreamed ideas which used to be considered beyond the pale, and pulled the 'centre' much further to the Left than it used to be. Perhaps an opposite to the NDP will allow the unspeakable to be spoken - ie, conservative beliefs. I was watching Douglas Murray the other day and he said there seems to be this belief, promulgated by the media and Left, that if you step one tiny foot across the center, like maybe you want lower taxes or something, you're a conservative, but from there it's this steep falloff to 'alt-right' and then fascism, which are, of course, beyond the pale.

Meanwhile, on the Left, one small step across the line doesn't even count as anything but Centrist. You have to take several steps to be a liberal, and then walk for a block or so to get to Socialism, then jog a little further to get to Marxism and Communism, and all of that is good and respectable. You can be a Marxist or a Communist and still be a respected university professor and lecturer.

But let someone reputedly 'alt-right' (even if he's not) get near a campus and you need hundreds of police to keep order.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2782
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 04:40:38 pm »
The right wing extremists think their idea of centrist is the true one.


PPofC - the pee pee party, almost as good as the old CRAP

Offline Bubbermiley

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 445
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 05:27:39 pm »
Coyne has suggested that the existence of the NDP has mainstreamed ideas which used to be considered beyond the pale, and pulled the 'centre' much further to the Left than it used to be. Perhaps an opposite to the NDP will allow the unspeakable to be spoken - ie, conservative beliefs. I was watching Douglas Murray the other day and he said there seems to be this belief, promulgated by the media and Left, that if you step one tiny foot across the center, like maybe you want lower taxes or something, you're a conservative, but from there it's this steep falloff to 'alt-right' and then fascism, which are, of course, beyond the pale.

Meanwhile, on the Left, one small step across the line doesn't even count as anything but Centrist. You have to take several steps to be a liberal, and then walk for a block or so to get to Socialism, then jog a little further to get to Marxism and Communism, and all of that is good and respectable. You can be a Marxist or a Communist and still be a respected university professor and lecturer.

But let someone reputedly 'alt-right' (even if he's not) get near a campus and you need hundreds of police to keep order.
It's fascinating to read the imaginary political worlds people seem to enjoy creating these days to make themselves and their ideologies seem victimized.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6825
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 05:35:12 pm »
Coyne has ...

Yeah, my post had nothing to do with left-right as I think I said.  Everything is, according to you.

And my attempts to try and find common ground go nowhere, by the by, since you seem to think leftism is everywhere, is encroaching and is unreconcilable and not to be negotiated with.

Yeah, so my post had nothing to do with that.

Offline Poonlight Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3805
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 06:18:49 pm »
I looked at their platform on their site.

There are some interesting platform ideas...
No provincial equalization - but no ideas to replace it with something “more fair”

I'm not entirely against the end of provincial welfare "equalization". I'd probably start by cutting it back though instead of eliminating.

Quote
No carbon tax - no plan to deal with climate change

Canada is responsible for 1.5% of the world's total CO2 output.  Even if Canada became 100% carbon free it wouldn't have any meaningful impact on climate change.  The US and China together make up 45% of global C02 output.  Our CO2 policy should be tied to their CO2 policy to provide incentive for them and also so we don't waste our money and resources shooting ourselves in the foot trying to fix a problem we can't fix.

Quote
Supply management - wants to scrap it.   Seems to be to appease the USA for NAFTA.

He seems more anti-government and pro free trade.  I don't know much about the issue myself.

Quote
Drop taxes, especially on businesses.  - Doesn’t say what services will be eliminated.

He says people making up to 15k a year will have their taxes reduced by $500, and the corporate rate will be dropped from 15% to 10% (which i don't agree with)  He also supports fully eliminating capital gains taxes, and wants free trade deals with seemingly every country.  Very economically conservative.

Party also wants to decrease immigration to 250k a year as was the average under Harper.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 06:47:45 pm »
It's fascinating to read the imaginary political worlds people seem to enjoy creating these days to make themselves and their ideologies seem victimized.

Lots of people self-identify as Marxists or even Communist  and aren't run out of town on a rail. How is it we get riots whenever someone reputed to be 'alt right' shows up, even when they deny it?

Would you have a problem if a fifth of professors in the humanities identified as Fascists? I have a feeling you would.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 06:50:19 pm »
Yeah, my post had nothing to do with left-right as I think I said.  Everything is, according to you.

And my attempts to try and find common ground go nowhere, by the by, since you seem to think leftism is everywhere, is encroaching and is unreconcilable and not to be negotiated with.

Yeah, so my post had nothing to do with that.

You were commenting on this new party and I commented on this new party as well.

You're just still in a massive sulk because I don't share your reverence for the Charter, and every post you've made since then makes it seem like you've given up on pretending to be vaguely neutral and now want to dive deep into the Leftist pool of hatred and contempt for anything even mildly to the right of centre.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
Dumb Dumb x 4 View List

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6825
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 07:28:32 pm »
You're just still in a massive sulk because I don't share your reverence for the Charter, and every post you've made since then makes it seem like you've given up on pretending to be vaguely neutral and now want to dive deep into the Leftist pool of hatred and contempt for anything even mildly to the right of centre.

Nope.  Keep guessing, though.

Offline kimmy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3414
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 10:44:06 pm »
Lots of people self-identify as Marxists or even Communist  and aren't run out of town on a rail. How is it we get riots whenever someone reputed to be 'alt right' shows up, even when they deny it?

Would you have a problem if a fifth of professors in the humanities identified as Fascists? I have a feeling you would.

Why do Marxists and communists not get pilloried the way the alt-right do? Because Marxists and communists are defined by economic beliefs, while the alt-right are defined by hate.  Alt-right isn't a synonym for far-right or ultra-conservative. It's nothing to do with economics at all. Its characteristics are an embrace of racism, white nationalism, homophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitism, and the idolization of hate-mongers like Richard Spencer. Tiki-torches, Charlottesville, "very fine people".


 -k
Like Like x 1 Agree Agree x 3 Disagree Disagree x 1 View List

Offline Poonlight Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3805
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2018, 01:17:52 am »
Why do Marxists and communists not get pilloried the way the alt-right do? Because Marxists and communists are defined by economic beliefs, while the alt-right are defined by hate.  Alt-right isn't a synonym for far-right or ultra-conservative. It's nothing to do with economics at all. Its characteristics are an embrace of racism, white nationalism, homophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitism, and the idolization of hate-mongers like Richard Spencer. Tiki-torches, Charlottesville, "very fine people".

The proof is in the pudding though.  Fascism has led to many millions of deaths, but communism has led to even more, to around 100 million for most estimates, more than all the deaths in WWII, and mostly because of their "economic beliefs".

Though Marxism is different than Marxism-Leninism or Maoism.  Never met a Leninist prof.  But I doubt a Marxist-Leninist speaker would get banned or booted or shouted down despite the mass death & horror of their ideas.  The point is, far-right and far-left are filled with equally horrible ideas, but are treated with a double-standard in our society and in universities.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:21:41 am by Coonlight Graham »
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2018, 01:19:23 am »
Its characteristics are an embrace of racism, white nationalism, homophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitism, and the idolization of hate-mongers like Richard Spencer. Tiki-torches, Charlottesville, "very fine people".
Odious beliefs which are the bookend for the anti-white, anti-christian, anti-semitic nonsense that is lauded in many academic circles today. A member of the NYT editorial board is on the record peddling hate with a viciousness that would make Richard Spencer blush but faces no consequences because the targets of her hate are white people. While it is good that you distinguish between the alt-right and right of center thinkers your argument that there is not a double standard fails.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:21:41 am by TimG »
Like Like x 1 Agree Agree x 1 Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2782
Re: People’s Party of Canada launched
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 01:42:20 am »
But I doubt a Marxist-Leninist speaker would get banned or booted or shouted down despite the mass death & horror of their ideas.

Could you point out what ideas specifically you have a problem with. Implementation by Stalin and Mao are not the same as the ideology. Capitalism brought us the slave trade, therefore we should ban and boot anyone preaching capitalist ideas according to your standard. Even today, many millions die annually of malnutrition and related causes thanks to capitalists; estimates are about 14 million a year due to capitalism which is an order of magnitude higher than communism ever caused (based on the 100 million total estimate that CG has supplied above, and also mostly because of capitalist "economic beliefs").
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:49:53 am by ?Impact »